Dear Stefan,

When I am reading your text and comments, I wish to read more! Everything you write resonates with me so much that it almost never happens. When I will be in Germany next time, I will try to see you, if you do not mind. If you will be in Chicago, let me know, please.

Thank you for letting me know about Joachim Keppler, I will read him.

The following point seems to be the only one I did not understand:

"in terms of information, the total informational content of the universe stays the same, hence is conserved"

Did not the appearance of life and thinking beings increase "the total information content"? Did the informational content increase or stay the same after Newton's discovery of celestial mechanics?

Yours, Alexey.

Dear Alexey,

thank you for your kind words. I am happy if someone can profit from what i wrote.

I am not a professional scientist as you are and haven't ever worked in the scientific field - although i am a media engineer (programming). But i am no more working in this field (internet) because it is too money dominated and commercial to me and is flooded with tons of advertising tricks i cannot identify with. In case i win something at the current essay contest, i will come to Chicago and visit you, promised - otherwise i can't afford this journey. Here in germany i live in a moderate setting, contented with it and work with children in a nice kindergarden to make my living. Giving some love, passion and guidance to these little human beings is a fulfilling duty for me. So, if you want to visit me, i cannot offer an academic environment, but only my thoughts and my personality.

If one presupposes that the material world is quantized - as it is permanently measured by itself via 'decoherence' or 'collapse' due to quantum fluctuations, then the informational content of the universe can be associated with the number and states of particles in it - in terms of bits. Since the number of particles in the universe does not depend on the expansion of the latter, it may only be dependent on how much matter gets transformed into radiation during the course of cosmic events and how much radiation can be thought of as being able to be convertible into ordinary matter. I know of no theory that claims that new matter is regularily produced by some radiation, so the total amount of ordinary matter seems to be somewhat fixed in the universe. Since we only can speak of information if we can measure something and such a measurement process necessitates particles to interact with each other, one can say that the total amount of information - in a quantitative sense - is somewhat fixed in the universe.

The *qualitative' amount of information, means meaningful information to us humans, is just a tiny, tiny part of this total amount of information in the universe. This is so, because the *meaningful information* is exactly the information about structures that are highly compressible, means, algorithmically compressible. Therefore the discovery of celestial mechanics by Newton is the discovery of the algorithmical compressibility of - at least some parts - of nature. Newtons laws, written down in mathematical language, do only represent some tiny, tiny few bits of information! - although this information is *highly* meaningful to us as observers! The same seems to be true for me for the results of Kurt Gödel. Consistence, completeness and decidability (well, the latter better termed as provability): these are the ingredients / main properties of all formal systems. If i presuppose the universe to be a formal system at - and only at the particle level -, then the quantitative informational content of the universe is a fixed one (because you can only obtain as much information out of such a system - in quantitative terms - as you put into it in the first place - due to axiomatic considerations). The beautyful thing now is, as mentioned, that we need no trillions of tons of bits to describe the main lawful features of the universe, but only a tiny, tiny small fraction of the total amount of bits. That's the beauty of science. But it is also the beauty of logics. Instead of having to measure trillions of tons of bits to come to general conclusions - for example about the microwave background, predicted by the big-bang scenario and the redshift and so on -, the information that there has to be some MBR is somewhat encoded within the available information about redshifts and so on.

The question now is, how can the total amount of information in the universe encode itself - totally - within only a tiny, tiny small fraction of its own bits? The answer for me is, that it cannot. Because besides the known laws of physics which are nicely encodable into very few bits, the 'initial conditions' aren't encoded anywhere (and if they nonetheless would be, they wouldn't be decodable for all practical purposes). For me, this indicates, that the worldview of infinitely precise initial conditions is a dead end. Similar, a complete and consistent formal system, searched for by many scientists, is also a dead end, insofar as it will never answer the questions that are posed in this essay contest!! For me, all details point into the direction that nature prefers its overall consistence to the price of some fundamental incompleteness of its formal describability. Remember for example a particle which does pass a beam splitter. One cannot say in advance wich path it will take (only give some probabilities). The information of the path it will take is not existent yet anywhere in spacetime! After the particle passed the beam splitter, the information is available - but only, if there isn't a second beam splitter before the particle hits one of two detectors. If there is such a second beam splitter, one cannot say which of the two paths the particle took. But instead, one can say with certainty, which detector will detect the particle. So the bit of information (right versus left path) is destroyed (or 'transformed'; but only in the case where the second beam splitter is installed!) into the bit which says us which detector will fire. If no second beam splitter is in front of the detectors, the relevant bit is not destroyed and replaced by another bit of information, but used to tell us what of the two paths the particle has taken. Only in this case, something can be 'stated' before the particle does take its path: namely that it seems as it will take only one distinct path and not both simultaneously.

As i argued in my essay contribution prior to the current one, the conservation of consistency does somewhat imply the incompleteness of formal systems as it is in my opinion the case for a presupposed quantized universe - and this does further imply that time does flow. If there would be total completeness - as in the block universe view - it would be indeed mysterious how time can arise or more accurately speaking, how conscious observers can arise which are able to correlate only some specific bits so that the impression arises that time does flow. Moreover, to be able to correlate these bits in the fashion human beings do it, one has to presuppose time right from the start!. So, if there is total completeness, Gödel tells us that there must be some kind of inconsistency (in our case of the derivation of 'time'). I think the conservation of consistency is a necessary assumption to at all make some meaningful statements / conclusions about reality. All indications point into the direction that nature is consistent, even if there should be 'supernatural forces', yet to be discovered. Assuming such forces to be existent and further assuming that they aren't formalizable in mathematical terms, this does not contradict that, - once they are detected (presumably indirectly) -, they then could equally well be termed 'natural' instead of 'supernatural'. The question is, are such supernatural laws needed? I think the answer is one way or the other yes, if one wants to have a coherent and consistent answer to the questions posed by this essay contest.

Dear Stefan,

Thank you for the essay. I have two little comments. I like the fact that you stress that goals and intentions are subjective. I agree with you. There is something else that is subjective which science takes a great interest in. That is Information. We measure it. We compare it. There are several different theories about it (Shannon, Kolmogorov etc).

Unfortunately I cannot agree with your point on near-death experiences. There is simply a lack of proof of such things being anything more than biology.

I hope you can look at my essay.

All the best,

Noson Yanofsky

    Dear Noson,

    thanks for reading and commenting!

    I will have a look at your essay, but it may take some time to comment in extent to it because momentarily i have the flue. Anyways, your abstract sounds very interesting and i will read what you have to say.

    Best wishes

    Stefan Weckbach

    I will answer every questions, but momentarily it takes some time to do so because i have the flue. So, be a little bit patient and in the meantime ask whatever you want, you will receive an answer some days later.

    Dear Stefan,

    While I am thinking over your extended response, I wish to ask you three things.

    First, the most important: get better ASAP with you flue!

    Second, if you like to be in contact after this contest, you may send me email to my laboratory address: (my family name) at fnal.gov .

    third, if you did not yet score our essay, please do not forget that.

    Cheers, Alexey.

    Dear Alexey,

    i take now huge junks of antibiotica, and it gets better although i am a bit dizzy.

    I you have questions regarding my extended answer, just ask (it may take some time to elaborately answer, but i will). The example with the particle and the beam splitters is a description of a Mach-Zehnder interferometer, adjusted to enable maximum interference at the output. If i win something, i come to Chicago, promised!

    I will score your essay now, although i usually score at the end of the contest to avoid the usual scoring hype in these contests.

    Best wishes

    Stefan Weckbach

    stefan, hi,

    i was fascinated to see your approach in which you follow the classic victorian-era "objective science" approach, eliminating "that which may be experienced" from all possible enquiry.

    i like that you follow up that, even by asking the question that relates something as subjective as "mind" in an objective framework such as mathematics, you conclude that the standard approach (dismiss all that is "subjective" summarily without due process) cannot possibly work.

    warmest,

    l.

      Dear Luke Kenneth Casson Leighton,

      thank you for your kind words. It's always good to get some confirmation.

      Best wishes,

      Stefan Weckbach

      Dear Stefan Weckbach,

      I wrote a comment above almost a month ago, and I can sincerely say that the most pleasure I have found in this essay contest has been reading your comments on various essay pages. I thank you. You mention that you work with little human beings on a daily basis. Alan Watts remarked that a three year old is as close as one can get to a Zen Master. Perhaps this accounts for your wisdom. I am most impressed by the way you hold your own, and in my opinion win the argument, against some very professional physicists who have chosen to enter this contest and play this game. I am too old to travel again to Germany (although I've enjoyed all my visits) but if you ever find yourself near San Francisco please let us get together.

      After this gushing you may be discouraged from even commenting on my essay, but I would dearly love to hear your opinions. I can tell from your response to Alexey and Lev Burov that you will not fully accept my model, as you credit ideas of "quantum collapse" and the idea that microtubules or some other essentially "large molecule" are related to consciousness. You put more faith in current interpretations of quantum mechanics than do I. I believe instead in an underlying unity and universality that is neither panpsychism nor anthropomorphism. Anyway, I hope you haven't forgotten my essay, but have just been thinking about it.

      This contest is blessed by the participation of such as you.

      With all my best wishes,

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

        Hello Stefan,

        I read your essay 2 or 3 three times and I got a lot knowledge and your thought about consciousness. May be my qualifications and knowledge does not coincide for high quality essay but I found something confusing in the essay as well.

        I liked in the part when you said "Therefore, the terms goal, intention and meaning simply make no sense if every subject is eliminated from these terms. It would be like talking about thoughts and at the same time claiming that there is no need for a thinker of them." and I totally agree with it.

        Also, the part " the whole universe is math" which I have discussed in my Essay:"Our Numerical Universe".

        But I am a little confused about the part" wrongly assume to know all governing laws, even those of in-principle unobservable events." Is it that you meant that we ,human have used wrong mathematics for several assumptions they have made, because I think "Physics is all about assumption" and we were not always wrong about our assumption. Or maybe I am not fully grapsing your essay.

        Also, I liked the part where you said the God is in greater consciousness than us. In my essay also I have written about part, "Can God be represented by Maths? I will be very happy If you check out my essay on link:http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2815

        Though I am very young to judge your talent, but the essay was mindblowing and I gave a very high rate to it.

        Best Regards from Himalayas

        Ajay

        Dear Eckard and Stefan,

        Though I have very less knowledge about science and theories, I am sharing this because It always comes in my mind(and it may not be correct).

        What I think is, as mentioned in my essay, that If any greater consciousness body, named "God" exist, then It must exist in higher dimension than us. If we listen to the religious people then we can often hear that 'God' has full control over us and that is only possible if the observer is in greater dimension than us which we can never predict(due to our limitations).

        Also, we can connect several scientific theories with religious saying, for e.g " It is said that, if we do sin we are punished and vice-versa, which is seen to be connected to Newton's 3rd law of motion" To every action there is equal but opposite reaction"and it's just an example.

        But as you said it's time to start now which I have mentioned in last part of my essay, I am inspired by that and I guess assumption, that makes sense, should be made as much as possible and tested by intelligent people for aims and intentions.

        Best regards from himalayas

        Ajay

        • [deleted]

        Dear Ajay Pokhrel,

        thank you for reading, commenting and appreciating my essay.

        There are two possiblilities one can start from. First, assuming that we know all governing laws of the universe, they have yet to be interpreted properly. So we have Newtonian mechanics, relativity and quantum mechanics. From this point of view one now can ask where the consequences logically do lead us. Is the universe overall deterministic, is it stochastic, does anything emerge from a most fundamental level of description and how does this fundamental level of description has come into existence (if not eternal). One surely ends up with some eternal fundamental 'thing' and can ask if it makes sense to assume it to be indeed exclusively fundamental. This works fine in the usual buisness of physics and science, since in this daily business, the subject including consciousness, qualia, the impression of a kind of free will and living things per se do not matter much (except for biology and the higher siences).

        But when it comes to questions posed by this essay contest, one can come into trouble. I tried to expose these troubles in my essay in a short, but hopefully thought-provoking manner. The troubles are, is consciousness merely an epiphenomenon (it produces consciousness like the kidneys produces urine), has a subject some kind of choice what to think, to conclude, whow to behave - has it some kind of free will. If true, how is this possible if one assumes the only governing laws to be the ones i mentioned above. And if consciousness can be derived as just a result of some physical interactions (maybe with some quantum twists within it to produce it physically), what does a system like a brain qualify to be conscious, in contrast to, say, a computer. Not surprising enough that consciousness, under these exclusively physically - and therefore also mathematically - premises should be possible at all (in comparison to, say, a computer), no, it is not only aware of some environment, but is also able to decipher huge parts (and if the above assumption that we already know all governing laws is true), if not all parts of the lawfull behaviour of reality. Although this reality then would be describable exclusively in terms of mathematics and logics, without no intelligent fundamental level of reality one is forced to ask the following question:

        Is it logical that nature is logical, means, is it logical that logic does indeed exist and does consistently rule all of existence?

        I think, the only way to solve these conundrums is to 'simply' assume an eternal source of creative intelligence, aka God. This may not be so simple for some people, because there are also good arguments to question the existence of such a God. Therefore in my essay i had to give some indirect arguments, arguments that are not mathematically as precise as we are used to think of science. But the possibilities for logic to make some reliable deductions is unfortunately limited and i therefore try to use another scientific (and debatable) tool, namely induction. I ask, what patterns can support aims and intentions as something that is genuinely valid, even beyond space and time. It cannot be mathematics, unless one assumes that mathematics is some kind of aware structure with aims and intentions.

        Now to your question: If determinism and with it automatically mathematics has its limits (even in describing some simple problems like chaotic behaviour or the three-body-problem) and it additionally has been proven that most formal systems have limits of provability (they cannot differentiate between a necessity and a possibility), but we as intelligent beings can (because we can conclude that Gödel's results must mean that the mentioned systems must be consistent, but incomplete, otherwise these systems could prove everything, even the falseness of Gödel's results; so the assumption of consistence is necessarily true) what mathematics isn't able to do, this is a strong hint that mathematics is not all there is and surely is not the fundamental level of reality. If true, how then explain the existence of consciousness? By accumulated side-effects of fundamental physical laws? This is called 'emergence', but if emergence is true, it would be just another phenomenon which needs an explanation, because until now, nobody has traced all the assumed side-effects to show that they indeed lead to consciousness. Moreover, this emergence then must be understood as just another deterministic path nature does go. Therefore, whether we try to explain consciousness as a fundamental-particle phenomenon or as an emergent phenomenon does not make much difference, because emergence is bound to the fundamental particle level, as surprising as its effects may be. Surely, some kind of emerging properties are prsumably really there in the brain, i do not doubt this. The big question is if science and physics, concerned with these questions, is on a realistic path by generalizing the hitherto found results to be exclusively the only possibilities.

        Now to the second possibility (mentioned at the beginning). To explain subjective impressions without behavioural functions like for example the impression of the color red, one comes into troubles. All the mentioned lines of reasoning let me conclude that we should be open to the possibility that the laws and regularities we found until now in nature - are incomplete. They will concern us again and again with the question wether the made assumptions to explain all the conundrums mentioned here are really exclusive, means necessary and complete, or merely possible in the sense that the resulting explanation scheme is consistent and is not plaqued by some contradictions. So, with unknown governing laws i mean some instructions which have the power to govern the physical course of affairs, even if they are imposed onto the universe from without space and time (either via a law of lawlessness - means an instruction before the beginning of time for the microscopic realms to behave stochastically and/or by interacting from outside spacetime onto the course of affairs via some power to alter probabilities).

        In the latter case, altering some probabilities, one has the problem that it implies that the right probabilities are needed to generate consciousness in the brain. So, why rely on probabilities if one assumes well defined conditions for consciousness to arise? I make here a distinction: Altering probabilities is only a way to explain how an assumed unphysical entity (a soul) can have access to the functions of the body. It does not explain the production of consciousness in the brain per se. Therefore i presuppose that this soul is somewhat 'entangled' with material reality for the course of its lifetime. The interface between this soul and the brain has a twist which allows in certain domains that the one does influence the other, but not in all domains. Although a narcotized person has the impression afterwards that it had no consciousness, maybe what it experienced was similar to what a photo diode does experience. In contrast to our rich world of un-narcotized awareness, this narcotized state would seem like 'nothing'. Consciousness i think must have this ability to be dimmed down, even near-death experiences tell me this. So it well may be that consciousness and its contents are correlated (at least in this world) to specific frequencies, as frequencies are the only 'physical' think i can imagine as a regulatory property.

        It was an honor for me to lay down my lines of reasoning for you and hope, they may be usefull for you and i have answered your questions (if not, feel free to ask!! No problem!!). Thank you also very much for your rating.

        Best wishes,

        Stefan Weckbach

          Hi Edwin,

          thanks for your comment and the very kind words.

          Yes, i think i forgot your essay, although it is at the top of the list. I will read it the next days in detail and will then comment on it.

          I do also believe in unity. As you may have noticed, i believe that there exists a God. In my comment to Ajay Pokhrel below, i gave some reasons for this belief.

          Some years ago, i did believe also in God, but more in an esoteric fashion, means an intelligent source, operating much like an algorithm (with reincarnation and all that stuff), but the problem of evil and some other reasons led me to conclude that there is a personal God. Especially my studies of many near-death experiences led me to conclude this. So, i have more faith in unity an universality than in, say, quantum mechanics. But for tackling the essay questions rationally and therefore hopefully also more convincing for the audience, it is necessary to assume the case that these laws are fundamental and then conclude where this logically could lead.

          My results of these conclusions are in my essay as well as in my comments here and on other essay pages and i am very happy that you could profit from what i wrote!

          I'll read your essay and comment on it, hopefully i have to say something substantial about it. And if i win a prize here, i will not only come to Chicago, but also to San Francisco, promised. It would be nice to meet some of the participants here personally; i think this would be a great adventure and also an enrichment for everyones worldview i think. Because, after all and besides all controversy and deductive competition and different experiences in life, we all are only humans!

          Best wishes,

          Stefan Weckbach

          Hello Stefan,

          I got my answers but as you have said you introduced God to solve the problems and also said that our mathematics cannot support the existence of those eternal body. I support your statement that Mathematics is mindless and not aware in itself but what i think is it is our(human) problem that we are always stucked with the philosophical description of God and we have never, seriously, tried to mix our mind with mindless math to prove existence of God, which is still considered as our limitations.

          Anyway the logic you gave me was verymuch understable for me, and I want you to view my essay and discuss the ideas that I have arised and give it a rating , if possible.

          Best Regards

          Ajay

          Dear Ajay Pokhrel,

          your work is important. We should investigate all options.

          In my comment above to Steve Dufourny at my essay page (Feb. 16, 2017 @ 17:09 GMT), i wrote about the number 3 and trinities. Maybe this is interesting for you.

          I will read your essay the next days and comment on it.

          Best wishes

          Stefan Weckbach

          • [deleted]

          Dea Stephan,

          We both are searchers for the essence of our reality, not only the How but alo the Why.

          When you are saying : "consciousness aims to be not merely a cosmic accident but has an inner desire to be the intentional result of a meaningful process to have its roots within a greater consciousness (god) that should have the power to bring such a process at all into existence." then I agree with you about an external influence or mybe an external reason of our emergent phenomenon called reality. I don't call this an "author" but introduce the non formalisable Total Simultaneity.

          I think that maybe my essay "The Purpose of Life" may give you new insights, like yours did for me.

          I gave you an 8 because of the insights you gave and and acceptance that we never be 100% sure of our incoming information. I await your comment.

          best regards

          Wilhelmus

            Dear Stefan,

            Your essay is well-written, and discusses what you justifiably call "the hard problem of science" of goals, intentions and meanings seriously. This is indeed a very hard problem, both philosophically and scientifically. I tried to approach it partially in my essay too, and I am very aware of the difficulty of finding a balance between these problems and objective science. Good luck!

            Best regards,

            Cristi Stoica

            The Tablet of the Metalaw