Hi Rene! Of course, I am looking for a great constructive feedback!

Yes, there is some sort of relationship with the container first. The container is the entire primitive ocean, or better layers of the ocean with different circulation paths.

The information is merely to stay bellow a certain level or above a certain level. This is too simple, but that's the most basic information life can carry without a system specialized in carrying information, like DNA. I tried to explain in the papaer how these informations could accumulate, that is, where currents would cross, they would mixture. In this case, more layers of control could accumulate.

Note that when currents meet, there is turbulance, so, this would be the first selecting pressure life, as I defined, would suffer. The selection would be, since there is no protection barrier to protect contents, like a cell, more sturd reaction would be selected. In this sense, a more stable reaction would "survive".

So, while currents of the ocean ciculated, this more complex reaction would be selected and spread to other currents. The overall chemichal composition of the oceans would change gradually because of these. There would be inputs from impacts from asteroids, input from volcanoes and so on. But, so, these would be inputs that would disturb the life as I put it, which would force them to gradually accumulate more and more complex reactions, that would further increase the chemistry of the oceans or many of its currents.

Note that deeper in the ocean, there are currents that passes through vents. But these are very turbulent, at a time, some very mechanism would be sturd enough enter one of those and begin to use the organic reactions there.

Hi Daniel

Nice to see you at FQXI. You seem to have put a good effort into the essay so I am giving you a very good mark. My essay as you know is my old theory. I have made an excellent progress although I have not been feeling well so I have cut back on the explanation.

the numbers are very easy to check via Wolfram.

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2884

Adel

Hi Daniel,

maybe I misunderstand. But, if these reactions "spread" they do so because they have a positive feedback loop, a bit like a wildfire (forest fire) or such? And you propose a repertoire of different autocatalytic reactions with different signatures? I really find it hard to see how any coonstruction is possible without "transgenerational" memory...

    Hi Rene,

    Yes. Yes. There is no reproduction, as I tried to define life, I tried to highlight that= in the essay. It's like you say, "wildfire". But different "wildfires", which may burn on different types of tree, overlaps and may become dependent on one another or not. If they are, they "may be able" to spread to other types of trees.

    I put on the technical note a type of reaction that is a mixture of two others. The different signatures, as you say, comes from different currents that input different chemicals.

    This is not a memory, it is a self propagating pattern. It will only become memory, in the sense of storage of data separated from write/erase/copy, down the evolution line, when this "wildlife" reaches alkaline vents. This is where, I think, life as we know came up to be.

    Life, as I defined in the beginning can be thought of the ecosystem in its entirety, where each organism, on each niche, tries to gather energy. So, the "wildfire" continues, but in much more specialized parts, like in individual animals, plants, bacteria, and so on.

    Hey Daniel, it's Erik P Hoel ("Agent Above, Atom Below") - thanks for linking me here. You asked me to comment on notions of stability, on which I completely agree with you as you say "That life is all about control and stability, adapted to a random environment and that it tries to stay as close as possible to a predictable pattern equilibrium, even if it shows a non trivial behavior."

    I'd completely agree, but add in that there can be causal stability (the stability of causal relationships) as well as what people think of as normal physical stability.

    Thanks for the essay!

      Yes, sure, there are causal relations! That's why I put arrows, to indicate the diraction of chemical reactions. Also, because also tried to highlight structures that are stable with time. I wanted to speak about the mRNA, but I also wanted to talk about evolution... So, I ended up talking about the signals that pattern most of the animals.

      If you have anything more to say, please, do it! I am also here to learn and enrich my ideas with the ones of other people!

      Dear Daniel de França Diniz Rocha,

      Please excuse me for I have no intention of disparaging in any way any part of your essay.

      I merely wish to point out that "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." Albert Einstein (1879 - 1955) Physicist & Nobel Laureate.

      Only nature could produce a reality so simple, a single cell amoeba could deal with it.

      The real Universe must consist only of one unified visible infinite physical surface occurring in one infinite dimension, that am always illuminated by infinite non-surface light.

      A more detailed explanation of natural reality can be found in my essay, SCORE ONE FOR SIMPLICITY. I do hope that you will read my essay and perhaps comment on its merit.

      Joe Fisher, Realist

      Dear Joe Fisher,

      "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler." That's my intention, indeed, with the essay. In this case, I deal with the problems dealt with the cornerstones of evolution, mainly the beginning, the origin. The proposal for chemical clocks is quite complicated in itself, as you can check in the additional notes and references. All you can do is approximate set of approximate chemical equations, which describe quite well the mechanism, but secondary products might be left out. I also made some simplified arguments using arrows on section 2, in order to show how to deal with the most important operators or regulators of the reaction.

      The problem it is that the usual programs are extremely complicated and do not have a realistic expectation of a path from "primitive soup" to a cell. So, as you can see in the abstract, what I propose is more in the direction of an invitation to a new experimental program.

      Dear Daniel de Franca Diniz Rocha

      I invite you and every physicist to read my work "TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I'm not a physicist.

      How people interested in "Time" could feel about related things to the subject.

      1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.

      2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.

      3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.

      4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as "Time" definition and experimental meaning confronts them?

      5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,... a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander.....

      6) ....worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn't a viable theory, but a proved fact.

      7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.

      8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.

      9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.

      11)Time "existence" is exclusive as a "measuring system", its physical existence can't be proved by science, as the "time system" is. Experimentally "time" is "movement", we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure "constant and uniform" movement and not "the so called Time".

      12)The original "time manuscript" has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.

      I share this brief with people interested in "time" and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.

      Héctor

        Thank you! I will try to improve my understanding of the working of my brain and read your paper and your site. The usual books I try to access seem to descriptive instead of trying any attempt of explanation. Explanations are often left to the bio mechanical and physiological parts of the organism.

        I will read it, sure. But, can you give me a link to the full manuscript?

        Nice essay Rocha,

        Nice new definition for life you gave, I don't know life sciences....

        So, coming back to the initial premises, that the purpose of life is to propagate a chemical reaction and its aim to self regulate, notice that the absence of reproduction in the definition of life as well as the capability of reproduction. That's because, a priori, there is nothing that stops those reactions to go on forever. Reproduction is a consequence of life, given that the system will accumulate malfunctions by increasingly disturbing the determined states. So, before it breaks down, another copy is produced......

        ........................... Here I am also proposing a fundamental property of Universe. It is reproduction of Galaxies in the Universe. Probably it may be of interest to you....

        For your information Dynamic Universe model is totally based on experimental results. Here in Dynamic Universe Model Space is Space and time is time in cosmology level or in any level. In the classical general relativity, space and time are convertible in to each other.

        Many papers and books on Dynamic Universe Model were published by the author on unsolved problems of present day Physics, for example 'Absolute Rest frame of reference is not necessary' (1994) , 'Multiple bending of light ray can create many images for one Galaxy: in our dynamic universe', About "SITA" simulations, 'Missing mass in Galaxy is NOT required', "New mathematics tensors without Differential and Integral equations", "Information, Reality and Relics of Cosmic Microwave Background", "Dynamic Universe Model explains the Discrepancies of Very-Long-Baseline Interferometry Observations.", in 2015 'Explaining Formation of Astronomical Jets Using Dynamic Universe Model, 'Explaining Pioneer anomaly', 'Explaining Near luminal velocities in Astronomical jets', 'Observation of super luminal neutrinos', 'Process of quenching in Galaxies due to formation of hole at the center of Galaxy, as its central densemass dries up', "Dynamic Universe Model Predicts the Trajectory of New Horizons Satellite Going to Pluto" etc., are some more papers from the Dynamic Universe model. Four Books also were published. Book1 shows Dynamic Universe Model is singularity free and body to collision free, Book 2, and Book 3 are explanation of equations of Dynamic Universe model. Book 4 deals about prediction and finding of Blue shifted Galaxies in the universe.

        With axioms like... No Isotropy; No Homogeneity; No Space-time continuum; Non-uniform density of matter(Universe is lumpy); No singularities; No collisions between bodies; No Blackholes; No warm holes; No Bigbang; No repulsion between distant Galaxies; Non-empty Universe; No imaginary or negative time axis; No imaginary X, Y, Z axes; No differential and Integral Equations mathematically; No General Relativity and Model does not reduce to General Relativity on any condition; No Creation of matter like Bigbang or steady-state models; No many mini Bigbangs; No Missing Mass; No Dark matter; No Dark energy; No Bigbang generated CMB detected; No Multi-verses etc.

        Many predictions of Dynamic Universe Model came true, like Blue shifted Galaxies and no dark matter. Dynamic Universe Model gave many results otherwise difficult to explain

        Have a look at my essay on Dynamic Universe Model and its blog also where all my books and papers are available for free downloading...

        http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/

        Best wishes to your essay.

        For your blessings please................

        =snp. gupta

          Dear Rocha,

          Thank you for such nice interest and visiting my essay. I am writing a reply now for your esteemed comments on my essay there, Please have a look...

          Best Regards

          =snp

          Dear Daniel de França Diniz Rocha ,

          I am just repeating my reply here....

          ..............Reply...................

          Thank you for your valuable time and interest, we will work together no problem

          ............... Your words..........

          Your essay is hard to understand, but I think it is excellent.

          ..............Reply...................

          Thank you for your kind words and compliments ....

          ............... Your words.......... I am trying to figure out your ideas yet, going through your other published papers, since this out of my expertise (I am a physicist, though I like biology).

          ..............Reply...................

          Wowow wonderful!

          ............... Your words.......... Indeed there is a problem with what age does galaxies peak formation. They do seem to have a rather complicated way to behave.

          ..............Reply...................

          You mean about galaxy quenching? Or only peak formation ?

          ............... Your words.......... I wonder to know how do they appear in a telescope when they are forming.

          ..............Reply...................

          I am just giving two reported cases of Galaxies / Clusters of Galaxies which are being generated after Bigbang

          [35] Rakos, Schombert, and Odell in their paper 'The Age of Cluster Galaxies from Continuum Colors' Astrophys.J., 677 , 1019, DOI: 10.1086/533513, e-Print: arXiv:0801.3665 [astro-ph] | PDF arXiv:0801.3665v1 [astro-ph] 23 Jan 2008

          [36] C. PAPOVICH et el, CANDELS OBSERVATIONS OF THE STRUCTURAL PROPERTIES OF CLUSTER GALAXIES AT Z=1.62, https://arxiv.org/pdf/1110.3794v2.pdf

          See the CANDLES web pages also for simple language explanations.

          There are many other papers and websites also if want them I will give them....

          You can see the reply to post above by "Gary D. Simpson wrote on Feb. 10, 2017 @ 23:59 GMT"

          You can see the attachments there also for your ready reference

          ............... Your words.......... If seems they are always either stable or colliding.

          ..............Reply...................

          Not always..... Galaxies take birth, live their life, and then they will quench! Follow the life cycle

          ....................

          I am really thankful to you for your interest

          Best Regards

          =snp

          Dear Daniel,

          as I stated above, interesting essay. For me, there wer esome jumps in your argumentation:

          - You claimed that intention is given by the propagation of chemical clocks. Here I missed some steps to get this statement.

          - Derived from this statement, that life is composded at least by a very primitive network of chemical clocks. I see that chemical clocks are needded to get a control about the chemical processes but it is not life by itself. You need structure formation driven by nonlinear interactions. (but I see your intention)

          But I like some of your claims abou the connection of stability and topology or that membrans played a strong role in thze formation of life.

          A good essay (which I voted highly above the average) with a lot to think about

          Best

          Torsten

            Dear Torsten,

            There was no jump in the argument. There are 3 issues here.

            1.The conditions of the primitive Earth already had the necessary ingredients for a chemical clock. The problem is, as I posted in the abstract, what I propose is a research path. So, in a sense, the first part of the essay is a research proposal.

            2.The other is a linguistic one. Intention and aim are synonyms in usual language and intentionality is a very complicated philosophical term and only vaguely linked to intentinon. So, I looked for the philology of the words and I defined in the simplest terms what aim and intention are.

            3.I defined life as a radically different thing from life as we know it. In a part of the essay I, indeed, post the expression, "life as we know it". The initial structure was purely abstract, chemical pathways. But this definition of like keep existing, as in the form of the entirety of the biosphere, and all its subsystems, ecosystems, are life forms by themselves. I argue that this is a type of Gaya hypothesis.