Hi Steven,

I have read with much attention your well written contribution.

Some points that I liked to comment on :

Indeed the extreme measure to "create" a new universe any moment a decision is made is also in my opinion toooooo much. I made a new interpretation regarding this choices in my work. The eternal availability of Eternal Now Moments in Total Simultaneity.

The anthropic principle is very acceptable for humanity because of the fact that our senses are receiving information that only human beings are able to receive, the information that we cannot receive we cannot be implemented. See my Subjective Simultaneity Sphere.

About Complexity: The more information we are receiving for example of a billiard ball, the more complex it becomes. It is our consciousness that is arguing about information received, and our reality is becoming more and more complex each moment. Science is one of the reasons of consciouss complexity. The data received on our Subjective Simultaneity Spheres that were before not even perceived are becoming "recognisable".But the complexity always was there.

We have to try to find our consciouss way in this emerging complexity.

The origin of this complexity of our NOW lies in our consciousness. We are aware of a flow of time through our memory. The past is done and contains all the information , but it is just a MOMENT.

The reality is an emergent phenomenon that can change each Eternal NOW Moment. The closed system you mention is in my perception your consciousness.

The Darwinian approach is one of many and in my perception "truth" is only existing in each individual mind. The FINAL TRUTH we will maybe never be able to perceive but it is a goal, just like searching for the Reference of reference.

I liked very much your approach so I lifted you up a little in the list. I also hope that the above points will lead you to have a look, read and aso comment and rate my esay : The Purpose of Life" that gives another view on our emerging reality.

best regards and good luck

Wilhelmus de Wilde

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    • Post #52

    Dear Steven Andresen,

    You do an analytical overview of the 'fine tuning' problem and critique the invention of multiple universes and anthropic principle as weak solutions. Gotta agree there! You are, in my opinion, correct to tie the problem of complexity to the fine-tuning problem. It is hard to recognize and frame the big problems, and then to critique the "current" solutions. And, as noted above, you do it with a nice turn of phrase.

    If you've read my essay, you know that I accept the Darwinian narrative as the ideal mechanism for evolving complex living/ecosystems, but I do not believe this mechanism can produce awareness where none existed before. If it could, 'awareness' would have the status of artifact, and conditional at that. For me, awareness is primordial, while the physical 'logic' that evolves leads to increased intelligence, which I define as consciousness plus logic. It is the physical logic structures that evolve. I believe consciousness predates evolution.

    What I particularly like about your essay is your focus on water as key. From your comments I believe you surf and sail and spend a lot of time on water. You've put some of that time to good use. I agree with your analysis of bonding, etc., but one tends to forget the necessity to dissolve materials and make them readily available in the soup. As you point out:

    "Wouldn't it be such a shame to have a dry universe full of chemical potentials, no water lying around to express them."

    Absolutely!

    My best regards,

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Dear Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Thank you kindly for these words. Knowing something of your mind from having read your essay, I am thrilled to have this review from you. I have praise for your work, so will head on over to your page today to place it. But to say for the moment, you have written something most extraordinary. Perhaps I should read more of the contending top spot essays for comparison, but it is hard to imagine they could present ideas more useful to human awareness and method of mind, that applied effectively will undoubtedly improve our general scientific method. Yours is an essay that will leave an ever lasting impression and is my favorite for winning.

      I have been feeling a shift in my awareness these past few weeks, reading various ideas and opinions about the nature of universe and consciousness. I am influenced by several people here including James Putnam and yourself who have arrived at comparable opinion on this subject. The current scientific approach to physics doesn't have the tooling necessary to bring the subject of consciousness within its description. It needs to broaden its approach.

      Question for you if you will please? In my scenario of Darwinian Universal, the material universe we observe exists to absorb the regenerative field of space which corresponds to Auv (Dark Energy), and therefore the Baryonic structures we observe in the universe make sense in terms of being structured optimized for this purpose, for what could be termed an efficient atmospheric interaction. So all characteristics of matter are evolved, and therefore nothing of matter physics can be considered fundamental. The functions of matter that lead to composite atomic structure, and matters response to gravitational fields that leads to cosmological structures, stars, galaxies etc, might then be termed as evolved "agencies". And now I need to emphasize for the benefit of my point. These evolved "agencies" of matter most extraordinary and articulated. Would it fit within your frame of mind, that these "agencies" of matter could represent the fragments of consciousness that when compiled within an elaborate structure such as the brain, could be the underlying source from which higher levels of consciousness are assembled?

      Then it could be stated that the evolved agencies of matter are exploited by biology to manifest the compounded levels of agency of mind. The agency of matter that is aware of and responds to gravitational fields, would then be directly related to all agencies matter is capable of, including mind.

      "Agency" is a useful word that is useful in describing the function of matter that is aware of and responds to gravitational fields, and agency is also useful in describing the capability of the mind we term consciousness. Consciousness could then be represented as a sliding scale that transgresses all levels of matter assembly, from individual photons and sub atomic structures, through to the extreme level of assembly and functions represented by mind. "Agency" my new favorite word.

      This is my attempt to reconcile what I have learnt these few past weeks, and views such as you and James.

      Thanks again and you will see me soon on your page.

      Steve

      Thank you for your kind words Steven. I like my ideas. I appreciate your appreciation for them. However, it is the case the Edwin Eugene Klingman is more seriously educated and more seriously experienced in science. He also writes better. When I write well, it seems to be in relatively short blurbs. I think that, in the few weeks I have known you, you are advancing at a pace that is to be acknowledged as talent. Perhaps it isn't so much a matter of advancing as it is a matter of having the opportunity for opening up. I will rate your essay in the last few minutes of the contest.

      James Putnam

      Edwin

      Yes I grew up in a fishing family in a fishing town, and make full use of the ocean in every way. Surfing, boating, sailing, fishing, diving, etc etc. My obsession with surfing has offered me a unique opportunity to tune into a dynamic of nature, of liquid matter and energy flowing through it. It is as you say, a direct experience I have had that I could express somewhat for people, but my expressions would become their indirect theory. A lot is lost in translation. But the variety of moods and different swell characteristics that come and go from day to day, is stupendous. Each surf break is unique to all others in the entire world due to a seaming endless array of subtle influences, or swell frequency and direction, bottom contour, current, tide, the list goes on forever. In addition to the determinable factors, there is also a phenomenon we refer to as the x factor. The characteristics of a given day for which we cannot determine the cause. Surfing has anomalous. There is something truly amazing about tackling a large piece of heaving ocean, driving under its curtain of heavy water, only to emerge with dry hair. It is a very intimate experience with nature, one which also translates to a useful lesson in physics.

      Surfers have coined an expression. "Only a surfer knows the feeling".

      Steve

      Thank you James. I look up to you, so receiving these words from you is meaningful to me. Perhaps I am advancing but it might also be partly the case that I spend more time trying to learn from people than imposing my views. I knew the contest would be the time to share some of my ideas, so yes, opportunity to open up. I have the sense that what you refer to as talent is actually due to effort and practice. Talent implies making something difficult look easy, so it's a wonderful complement to receive. But perhaps an illusion.

      Steve

      James

      What it comes down to, is that you represented an unprecedented opportunity to learn from. So i wasn't about to drown you out with the sound of my own voice. I learnt a lot from you very quickly, and still doing so. Thank you kindly.

      Steve

      Edwin

      Once the results are in and you have gone through the rigmarole of thanking everybody for their support for your win. And then everything has quieted down a bit, I hope you will allow me a moment to bring up two items? I hope you will find of interest. And I'm sure James will allow me to draw him into the discussion also. They are not demanding subjects in any respect, but now just isnt the time to distract from the contest.

      Kind regards

      Steve

      Dear Alfredo

      Thank you for your message of support and I do respect your limited agreement. I think too many people contingent the level of respect they show for others, on how much they agree or dont agree with that persons ideas or beliefs. Its almost an unconscious influence but something people should be more mindful of. You are a man with an unorthodox notion, so I know you know too what I refer.

      I am glad to have your recognition that physics needs an explanation for the very particular order and structure observed of the world. Then our ideas diverge, but I would still find it interesting to rationalize your argument. I generally see how your idea conforms to known observations of the world, and I have to confess that my immediate thought is to a question, how much resistance to reason could that notion withstand? I think it would be fun to read your essay. I will be in touch.

      Thank you once again

      Kind regards

      Steve

      Hi Wilhelmus

      Thank you for your message and rating. I have a feeling I will better understand what you have written above once I have read your essay. I like the notion that scientific instruments are broadening our range of senses, which broadens our awareness of the world. And that it takes time to make sense of the wider range of observations we have now made. How long before we know what the universe really is, and what it is doing?

      Kind regards

      Steve

      Dear Steven,

      To answer your question is easy : It will take an infinity of time.

      I hope it will not take so long to read my interpretation, I will give you

      the link.

      Still little time left to rate.

      thanks

      Wilhelmus

      Dear Sirs!

      Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use «spam».

      New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

      New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

      Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

      Sincerely,

      Dizhechko Boris

      Dear Steven Andresen,

      Your essay and you are valuable new additions to the mix of physics enthusiasts and our free flowing parade of ideas taking place here at FQXi.org. Your essay deserves a higher rating. I encourage visitors to read and fairly evaluate your good ideas. I can vouch for the quality of your deductive abilities.

      James Putnam

        James

        Thank you for these kind words and petition. I am entirely satisfied with this experience of the past few weeks and score how it stands. It is not a highly polished piece of writing, but yes my hope was that people would find the ideas interesting. I have meet some interesting people, learnt some of their ideas and shared mine, and it looks like the conversation might continue post contest. My full expectations are satisfied.

        Thank you for sharing in the conversations with me, and referring me to some genuinely interesting people and their fine works. You are a scholar and gentleman, and ally and a friend.

        Yours sinserely

        Steve

        Steve,

        1. Yes the voting is over...thanks for your acknowledgment. I have a chance of taking a prize if the judges get fed up with the all the "emergence" essays and find my bit of dialog refreshing. And congratulations on your good showing in the contest.

        2. The link to the 1968 Engelbart demo. It took me back nearly 50 years! (Thank you, Thank you) I never did see it till now. I never did know what happened to Doug until I heard Ted Nelson's Eulogy. Doug's goal was "group intelligence" ......nobody was that interested.

        3. Digital Physics suggests that there exists, at least in principle, a program for a universal computer that computes the evolution of the universe. Could be ....however, the concept makes for very good movies :)

        4. My digital wave theory starts from the premise that uncertainty and superposition were bad guesses and a better approach (my guess) is that reality is discontinuous (wavelength hopping) at the quantum level. Now this pisses off mathematicians because their precious tools become useless (the Schroedinger equation).

        5. The one thing that I've done that bites is the calculation of the precession of Mercury. When I do this dark energy and dark matter become understandable as gravity. Space and gravity may be identical. You would think that this would clobber GR ....it does not. However, the link to GR is not complete.

        6. That's why I invite you to look at my work. I have just spotted this really good wave, I think you may enjoy riding it. Bike riding is my thing.

        Don Limuti (don.limuti@gmail.com)

          Thank you Don

          Yes good luck on taking a prize. Its a little hard to estimate judges discretion.

          Yes, space, dark energy, gravity all being the same substance. It sounds like we are testing some similar views. So you have identified a pattern, a correlation? You mentioned having a formula that corresponds to Mercury's procession, which then extends corresponds to dark energy and gravity considerations. That is the kind of thing I could appreciate. I look for the proportions between things. Where is the best place to open this discussion?

          I would be interested to hear about your idea in simple terms and then expanded if you will please?

          Thank you

          Steve

          Steve,

          Here is my recommendation, browse my website in the following order:

          1. http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/15_Planck_Units_and_Numerology.html

          A bit of a background.

          2. http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/29_Visualizing_Spin.html

          This will give you a notion of how I visualize a graviton. Not quite the standard model.

          3. http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/17_The_Case_for_Gravitons.html

          Here is where it starts to get interesting. I make a wild guess that the graviton (even thought is not light) is ruled by the Planck-Einstein equation. Now we know the energy of each graviton. The graviton now looks like a Compton wavelength and it has a mass. From there I use good old Newton's law of gravitation force to get the number of gravitons connecting two masses. The mass of a graviton bundle is the mass of each graviton times the number of gravitons.

          4. http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/19_Dark_Energy-Curved_SpaceTime.html

          Here it is shown how extragalactic gravitons (as opposed to intergalactic gravitons) cause the accelerated expansion of the universe. The simple diagram is mindblowing!

          5. http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/20_Dark_Energy_and_Mercurys_Orbit.html

          This is the icing on the cake! I can calculate the mass of graviton bundle connecting Mercury to the Sun.

          I make two assumptions:

          a. The mass of the graviton bundle is distributed linearly along the length.

          b. The mass of the graviton bundle has a center of mass that is halfway between Mercury and the Sun

          Said another way: The graviton bundle connecting Mercury and the Sun looks like a planet halfway between Mercury and the Sun (Vulcan lives!).

          I make a ratio to show how this (dark matter) planet causes mercury to precess. It is just relatively boring math to show that this precession agrees with measured values and Einstein's predicted values.

          6. At this point go to: http://prespacetime.com/index.php/pst/article/view/1188/1163

          This is a paper I wrote on this theory, and at the end it speculates how this theory is not that different than GR.

          I think you will enjoy this, keep in mind that it is just a theory, and ask me questions.

          Honestly, I think this is as close to explaining dark matter and dark energy as has been accomplished to date.

          Run with it.

          Don Limuti

          Don

          Taking this at face value, I think it and you are exceedingly clever. Please dont take this as agreement, because I havent nor probably could validate your work on my own. But I like the parameters you play with, and I respect the skills you need to build those associations. Its great that such a short explanation of yours can bring the vision to my mind.

          I think the following is especially ingenious.

          "I make a wild guess that the graviton (even though is not light) is ruled by the Planck-Einstein equation. Now we know the energy of each graviton."

          What I also find interesting about the parameters you play with and the associations they deliver, is how they can be interpreted within my framework. Would you be open to a brief explanation why I think this works? It might be helpful for us to know each others minds.

          Steve

          Hi Steve,

          Yes, give me your thinking on physics and we will start a conversation.

          Do this on my blog.....this way I get a heads up that I got a message.

          Don L.

          8 days later

          Hi Steve,

          I believe Gluons have have short range and do not get out of the atom. They are not like Photons that can travel long distances.

          But I do not know much more that this on nucleus phenomena. Sorry I cannot be of any help on your concept.

          I have made a diagram of how I think gravitons (my goofy variety) can cause unanticipated accelerating expansion:

          I tried to paste it here with no luck. So take a look at section 3c of "The Geometry of Dark Energy" paper.

          http://prespacetime.com/index.php/pst/article/view/1101/1089

          Or just see the same thing on my website:

          http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/19_Dark_Energy-Curved_SpaceTime.html

          Also, take a look on my website: http://www.digitalwavetheory.com/29_Visualizing_Spin.html

          There is a diagram that shows visually how gravitons differ from photons. Gravitons look like photons that are trapped between mirrors, that is why they have mass.

          Best of Luck with the sailboat. My brother in Florida had a 43 Mooney. Every time I called he was in the boat doing something.

          Greetings from Missoula MT USA

          Don L.