Dear Lorraine,

With great interest I read your essay, which of course is worthy of high rating. Excellently written.

I share your aspiration to seek the truth

«Our universe is both constrained by law-of-nature rules, and free to make new short-term local rules.»

«But the issue is not "how does structure emerge?". The issue is "how do rules (representable by mathematical equations) emerge?". The answer is that rules that control the system in question don't emerge: rules are ex nihilo introductions to the system.»

«the essay doesn't give examples of simple emergence which might help to explain more complex emergence.»

I wish you success in the contest.

Kind regards,

Vladimir

    Lorraine,

    Thanks for visiting my essay. And for providing some needed balance in this essay contest with your essay and your confronting the bozos.

    Appreciate your contribution!

    Don Limuti

    Dear Sirs!

    Physics of Descartes, which existed prior to the physics of Newton returned as the New Cartesian Physic and promises to be a theory of everything. To tell you this good news I use spam.

    New Cartesian Physic based on the identity of space and matter. It showed that the formula of mass-energy equivalence comes from the pressure of the Universe, the flow of force which on the corpuscle is equal to the product of Planck's constant to the speed of light.

    New Cartesian Physic has great potential for understanding the world. To show it, I ventured to give "materialistic explanations of the paranormal and supernatural" is the title of my essay.

    Visit my essay, you will find there the New Cartesian Physic and make a short entry: "I believe that space is a matter" I will answer you in return. Can put me 1.

    Sincerely,

    Dizhechko Boris

    Dear Lorraine,

    Many thanks for your encouraging comment in support of my ideas.

    Best regards,

    Vladimir

    Thanks very much Vladimir.

    I am looking at your essay now.

    Cheers,

    Lorraine

    Lorraine,

    Isn't 'living' itself just an emergent concept from the trillions of trillions of particles and interactions we're built from? Take those away and what's left? The only other option seems to be the metaphysical concept of a 'soul'. We can't rule that out of course, same as a God, but I think we should be scientifically honest about it if we invoke it.

    So unless we properly redefine 'living' in some other way I don't tend to agree that your last sentence, though the normal human response, is a true objective scientific statement.

    Another response most make, which I think is in error, is allowing subjective responses to content and 'agreement' with hypotheses of essays to affect our assessment of the quality of the essay. The scoring criteria don't include; 'degree of agreement' and quite rightly! All points of view should be argued, and as well as possible, which you've done. So our different take on things doesn't detract from the value of your delightfully written and presented essay. Well done. Scoring it now.

    Very best

    Peter

    (now returning to the negative charged hemisphere - though as I wrote in 2014 'there is no 'UP' in space'!)

    Dear Lorraine,

    I very much enjoyed your essay. I read it before and felt that you perhaps over-stated your case. After reading again, I'm re-thinking this. I believe I got hung up on terminology, while your concept is good.

    Either there is free will or not, and I do believe in free will; I'm not sure if there's a better example of the universe "generating its own rules". This must somehow begin with "fine-tuning" and proceed at the level of every living thing. It is my basic assumption, but the one I have the least explanation for.

    As usual, your essay is chock full of things I agree with, from computers deterministically processing symbolic representation of higher-level subjectively experienced information, etc., and computer's inability to achieve self-awareness (which I've expanded on with Natesh Ganesh) to "no deep understanding of emergence", and the view of it as progressive restrictions on degrees of freedom.

    As one who believes information comes into existence when an energy threshold triggers a structural change ('in'-forming the system) , I agree with you about "must derive from local physical structures".

    I tend to depart some from your views of quantum mechanics, but that does not detract from your essential points; it only changes the way in which your points are achieved. It is hard (impossible?) to argue with your point that "the universe is all there is ... that necessarily generates its own rules." If there is free will, this must, in some way, be an ongoing process.

    I'm glad I re-read your essay! I will rate it tonite.

    Also, I'm sure your living with and loving your local nature-life does not hurt your thinking about these things. The wildlife diversity on our ranch is soul-refreshing, making it easier to see into the nature of things.

    My very best wishes,

    Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Lorraine, I'm so sorry -- I didn't see that rating ended yesterday. I love your essay. Your clarity on several points that we both share is very refreshing.

      I'm traveling right now, but will get back to you later (if they let me).

      Jim

      Thanks Edwin. Our views about the nature of reality have so much in common. And I think it is true that living amongst nature, letting nature speak to us, makes it "easier to see into the nature of things."

      Congratulations on coming first in the community ratings! I sincerely hope that this translates into winning a prize. I hope that this is not a "Foundational Questions" Institute in name only!

      Regards,

      Lorraine

      8 days later

      You are welcome,

      It is a beautiful plant.At this moment I see the acer palamatums growing and the leaves are beautiful also in my small garden.

      Friendly

      4 days later

      Dear Lorraine,

      It is a pity that I could not see your email earlier, since post Apr 7, my reviews, and comments, do not elicit responses. Below, your statements are quoted in double quotes.

      Your opening lines, "unlike a model system that we might set up, where we impose the system rules from the outside, there is nothing and no one outside the universe to generate rules", appeared remarkably on the spot. I do hold similar views too. But a few statements later, one encounters, "So it is not illogical to hypothesise that the universe itself must in some sense know, must in some sense be aware of, the rules it generates", I began to feel uncomfortable with the use of the terms, 'know' and 'aware'. But, "Contrary to Rovelli's hypothesis, it is rules that are 'meaningful information'", gave a different picture altogether. Only difference I would like to add is that the rules are not meaningful information, but the reality of information is based on the natural causality of the rules.

      There may be a small problem with, "But the single outcomes of quantum randomness also have the status of 'necessity' if you hypothesise that a one-off local rule for each outcome has been generated by the universe, a rule that can be represented by an equation that resets the numeric value for the 'uncertain' system variable." I am not sure, if one is to gather that this generation of rule is arbitrary, or does it also have a rule, since if it is arbitrary, then it must be random, otherwise determinism comes back in terms of having a rule for rule generation. Secondly, one measurement of a system must be related to another to maintain certain probability distribution? I mean the processes could be stochastic, but the generation of photon from a coherent source, and their arrival at a screen past a double slit must have a pre-determined distribution.

      Aims and intentions are reflections of an element of desirability, why does any one context appear more desirable than another? Secondly, if such a sense of desirability is part of all elemental systems as well, then of course one should see violations of second law of thermodynamics everywhere if elements exhibited any degree of commonality of desirability. In contrast, if there is no centralized sense of desirability for a being / entity then it would be difficult for elements to set their courses of desirability such that they serve the purpose of the unified whole system. Later on, I do notice that you have offered resolution of this, "Paradoxically, it's seemingly the restriction of possibilities for lower-level entities (like particles, atoms and molecules) via structural constraints and rules, that leads to the potential for building higher-level entity structure (like single- and multi-cell living things), and the progressive refinement of information categories that might be used by the entity".

      "computers do not actually process information - they process representations of information; computer programs do not actually generate rules - they can only generate representations of rules." In my view, information processing takes place at all interactions, where semantics of experiencing also emerges in the same process. The computers are not yet programmed to achieve this level of emergence.

      "Despite the ubiquity of emergent behaviour there remains no deep understanding of emergence". What if one lays down the specific process of the emergence of higher level semantics from lower level primitives? This is what I have attempted. I do not attribute sense of knowledge, awareness, and desirability to all physical entities. But I work out how information processing via specifically organized interactions may give rise to high level complex and abstract semantics. It is very well possible !

      Rajiv

        Dear Rajiv,

        Thanks for reading and commenting on my essay.

        Re "There may be a small problem with, "But the single outcomes of quantum randomness also have the status of 'necessity'...":

        If you don't mind, to save repeating what I have recently written, I refer you to my post "Lorraine Ford replied on Apr. 24, 2017 @ 00:05 GMT" on http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/2694 (you would have to click on the "show all replies" to find it).

        There is a huge difference between algorithms and equations. Algorithms are things that control rules/equations. Therefore, they exist at a higher-level than rules/equations. To say that something representable as a deterministic algorithm, or that something representable as a non-deterministic algorithm, exists at the level of fundamental-level reality is a huge step.

        Lorraine

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