Well...the universe is the way that it is because it is the way that it is...there is no more fundamental reason. All that we can every hope is to understand the universe as the way that it it...
Discrete Matter and Action as Fundamental by Steve Agnew
Steve, Of course all essayists address what they SEE as fundamental, but I agree gravity is high on gravitas! Then if there is 'no matter' at all then it's no matter! so I go to creation of matter (so gravity) itself, where gravity seems able to simply emerge as a reduced energy density distribution in the condensate from whence the matter came. But as always logical consistency isn't enough.
Best
Peter
Dear Steve Agnew,
Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.
All objects, be they solid, liquid, or vaporous have always had a visible surface. This is because the real Universe consists only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.
Only the truth can set you free.
Joe Fisher, Realist
25 days later
Dear Steve,
I highly appreciate your beautifully written essay.
It is so close to me. «In s ummary, for matter and action to be the fundamental things from which all else emerges, the universe must be made up of a very large but finite number of particles of matter called aether. Instead of aether existing in continuous space and time, though, continuous space and time both emerge from the discrete actions of discrete aether. Since both gravity and charge derive from the decoherence of quantum aether, they become in effect scaled versions of each other and the discrete action of aether provides a fundamental framework for a rational universe».
I hope that my modest achievements can be information for reflection for you.
Vladimir Fedorov
https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3080
Hello Steve,
Congratulations for your essay about these actions and this aether, I liked a lot your general analyses of this aether and these actions.
I wish you all the best in this contest.
Best Regards
Dear Steve Agnew, you wrote a wonderful essay, I put 10. However, it would be even better if you replaced the concept of aether by the concept of physical space in the stat of physical vacuum. Should be distinguished physical space from geometric space. According to the principle of identity of space and matter Descartes physical space is matter and matter is a physical space that is moving. Time is a synonym for the total movement. Look at my essay, FQXi Fundamental in New Cartesian Physics by Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich Where I showed how radically the physics can change if it follows this principle. Evaluate and leave your comment there. Do not allow New Cartesian Physics go away into nothingness, which can to be the theory of everything OO.
I wish you success! Sincerely, Boris Dizhechko
Hello Steve,
There is a large measure of agreement that time, space, energy (that you refer to as 'action') and matter are fundamental constituents of the universe.
I thought that there was also general agreement that 'aether' is a misconception.
Regarding your references to the 'shrinking universe' and an 'expanding universe', physicists are inclined to define the universe as the realm of all-that-they-know-exists (expanding or otherwise), but are not inclined to speculate what lies beyond.
The concept of 'universe' is singular insofar as the prefix 'uni' refers to there being just one realm that is constituted to include all-there-is, including all that we are not currently conscious of.
I beg to differ with you regarding your statement that 'it is from discrete events that the notions of continuous space and time emerge.' Discrete events arise from the interaction between energy and matter. They are enabled by the prior existence of time and space that function as context. Only increments of time 'emerge' between events, which fact helps us distinguish each event from all others.
The issue of knowing 'why' energy and matter 'are the way they are' is an improper question unless one acknowledges that they are so because mankind has categorically defined them that way. It is important to recognise that energy and matter are in an on-going state of transformation from one form to the other dependent upon circumstances.
While time separates events as I have noted above, the only time that is 'real' in our experience is now, now and now.
We must be careful not to be unduly persuaded by professional jargon because there are differing interpretations of what it 'means', and the use of esoteric symbols and equations is a sure way of diminishing comprehension by a 'well-educated but non-specialist audience.'
Your opening question 'Do all things necessarily emerge from a few fundamental things?' is self-answerable, and understandable, if you delete the word 'Do'.
There is no reason to attribute rationality to the universe. It is mankind that is rational, a function of consciousness, and strives to reduce all other phenomena into conformity through rational analysis and categorical packaging. That is our self-made 'reality'.
Rest assured that I am fully in accord with the title of your essay 'Discrete Matter and Action (energy) as (being) Fundamental'
You carry my best wishes for good luck Steve.
Gary.
Nice essay Steve,
Very short but well presented. Not adequately explained was CSL, which I understand well but could have been summarized in endnotes...
All the Best,
Jonathan
You have a very good intuition and I have actually visited Krasnoyarsk and K-26 and I liked Siberia very much. You suppose that a torroidal gravity wave is fundamental and that certainly sounds a lot like aether. Now...you also need a discrete action to complement that gravity wave and you will have it all.
Do include some differential equations in your model and do show the Shrodinger equation and how it affects your work...keep the faith...
I resist the notions of space and time because they both lead to infinitely continuous media that are then subject to annoying singularities. With discrete matter and discrete action, there are no annoying singularities and so physical space and time no longer pose the singularities of mainstream science.
Measurement already confirms the existence of slow decay of matter, but electromagnetic and gravity noise confuse the analysis. Discrete matter and action mean that there is both a decay of matter along with an expansion of force and that is what confounds mainstream science...
Interesting. Thanks for the detailed remark. Space and time are very useful notions and indeed, it is difficult to imagine a universe based solely on matter and action...and yet mathematically, it is easy to imagine.
You speak of "what is beyond" the universe, but that question presupposes the notions of space and time. You note that:
"Discrete events arise from the interaction between energy and matter. They are enabled by the prior existence of time and space that function as context. Only increments of time 'emerge' between events, which fact helps us distinguish each event from all others."
First of all, you use words that presuppose space and time. An event is necessarily defined by time and has no meaning otherwise. Once you accept the notion of an event, you accept the basis of space and time. If instead you say that matter and action define change, time and space emerge from that action of matter, not the other way around.
Since the math seems to work just fine, the simple approach of matter and action does seem to describe a simple fundamental duality.
Continuous spontaneous localization, CSL, is a very interesting conjecture that supposes that there is an inherent decoherence rate for quantum phase entanglement. My point here was very simple: The current CSL estimates are consistent with the intrinsic decoherence of aether entanglement. Aether entanglement decoherence is what drives and therefore unites both charge and gravity force...
The causal set gravity theory of Fay Dowker is really a theory of aether and action. There are three axioms that the universe is transitive, non-circular, and finite.
This is a granular theory of spacetime and concludes that there are 1e240 aether atoms in the in universe. Discrete aether supposes that there are 1.2e125 that make up the aether universe. The causal set universe seems to have a lot more aether.
Also, moments of time in causal sets are creations of aether but it is the decay of aether coherence that determines moments in discrete aether. Evidently granular spacetime has not been very well received because of some kind of edge effects that should show up in the CMB. There was a grant to Rideout in 2012 but not much since then on granular spacetime...too bad...
8 days later
Steve. (copied reply from mine)
Thanks. I actually hit entanglement & superposition head on. but didn't dwell; Superposition is REAL, as the experiment confirms, but not what we expect. It's Maxwell's 'curl' with in inverse distribution to linear 'up/down', so NOT 'singlet' states!
'Entanglement' only needs to be retained parallel polar axes of the pairs. A,B 'measure' with rotatable field electrons; so each output is actually either 'SAME' or 'OPPOSITE' at some amplitudes. Think hard; non-locality is then NOT REQUIRED!
The only thing I've found at all limited about "classical intuition of space and time" is my ability to get it's logic across to those with different beliefs embedded or their own focussed viewpoint. SR was fully logically resolved in past (top 10) essays with the discrete (space/'time') field model (DFM) of nested spaces defined by relative motion and bounded by 2-fluid plasma interaction. i.e. your 'action' concept is indeed at it's heart.
Just identify what parts you don't recall resolved in the DFM and I'll run though it again. Not sure we can now access long posts, (yours?) so I'll stop here.
Best, Peter
I must admit that I had to once again look up the discrete field model (DFM) in order to better understand where you are coming from. First of all, you intuition is really great...but your maths leave much to be desired.
It is confusing to say that a discrete field model is something new since quantum electrodynamics is a discrete field model as well. Feynmans's QED is the epitome of a discrete field model and yet you do not seem to acknowledge Feynman in your writing.
Anyway...you do propose a discrete plasma as the basis for a DFM, but you do not say much about space and time. Do space and time exist first and then the DFM fills space and time?
The universe is made up of discrete aether and action and now there is a theory of causal sets that seems to show how space and time emerge from matter and action. The notion of the universe as a causal set is really intriguing and allows the emergence of space and time for the simple causal principles of matter and action.
That to me is really cool...
[deleted]
Mainstream science believes very firmly in an expanding spacetime universe, but discrete matter and action are actually what make up the universe, not continuous space and time. Both charge and gravity forces emerge from the collapse of discrete aether and that is why gravity and charge expand over time. The red shifts of galaxies go back in time all the way to the very cold (2.7 K) CMB creation (cosmic wave background).
The increasing red shift of ever younger galaxies and the very cold CMB creation are both consistent with the weaker forces and increased matter of the younger universe. The collapse of the cold CMB creation is actually at the speed of light and instead of the being a constant for all time, the universe collapse is what determines the speed of light in every epoch. Thus the very cold CMB creation will always be visible and will steadily warm up as the universe collapses. The Hubble constant shows the mass of the shrinking universe from a cold creation.
Steve,
Which maths? I don't do it! What time!? I remove all the physical traits we endow 'time' with, so it's just a consequence of my fundamental relative 'motion', whereon 'space' emerges, not 'space/time' but ANY one or more fermions - re-emitting at local c. I see QED well founded but parked up a cul-de-sac, & blame Feynman for our "shut up and stop thinking" era of zero progress. I answered your post on mine viz;
Thanks, but I'm not sure where I've gone smooth. I confess I never really understood causal sets theory and didn't see how could be 'fractal'. To explain, In the 'Discrete Field' Dynamic all apparent 'smooth' Lagrangian behaviour is granular at the next scale down, naturally recursive, rather like the amplituhedron. Rotation is what DEFINES a discrete state or 'granule'
So; The 'vortex' state of a (Majorana?) fermion ('electron/positron pair') as the smallest 'condensed matter' state, is made of many smaller vortices, the 'pressure' distribution of which around the fermion (etc) is what we call 'gravity'. I feel that's more in line with granularity than continuity. No?
If you feel the two can combine for something greater than the sum... do advise.
Peter
Steve,
I assume that was you. As that's my department (not maths!) I can't help comment & question; "The Hubble constant shows the mass of the shrinking universe from a cold creation."!!?
I'm not wedded to doctrine, and can agree a shrinking universe, but from the Hubble constant? (I think unnecessary anyway) and with a 'cold' start? (I think NOT unnecessary!)
Just so's you know, the DFM suggestet a dead simple derivation of redshift over time as a natural function of the OAM of light and the Schrodinger sphere expansion. A recycling cosmology also emerges by the way. (videos ^ & published papers on both available if you wish)
Peter
You weave a nice story in your discrete field model. You use all of the right words like Schrodinger sphere and fraunhofer diffraction, but then your maths leave much to be desired.
Intuition is an important part of our subjective reality, but we must be able to agree with others about our objective reality as well as our subjective reality.
Your DFM seems much too subjective and does not give us the entropy of a black hole, for example. Any cosmology must give us the entropy of a black hole or it is not even work considering...