The Day After the “Nightmare Scenario” by Scott S Gordon

Dear Scott,

You are right that I am using my current knowledge, but I am not really trying to apply it to space-time because my current knowledge goes beyond the concept of space-time so that concept is no longer required to explain the structure and functioning of the universe. You are right that we will never be able to directly see, experiment on, or show the entities of space-time in ANY physical manner because it doesn't really exist. When I began to look at man's current scientific structure, I found that the understandings that it generated were very vague in nature. I wanted to know the details of the structure and operation of matter particles, energy photons, and fields, etc., but I found that the current theories could not supply this information. It could account for observed interaction outputs of particle interactions and the probabilities of the occurrence of each output result, but it could not give any good indication of the structure that generated those specific outputs and their probabilities of occurrence, etc. When I began to look at all of the observational information concerning matter particles, energy photons, and fields it became obvious that their structures were all connected to some base source entity. The theories backed up that concept since E=MC^2 essentially says that the mass of matter particles is equivalent to the energy of energy photons. The observational data showed that matter particles and energy photons could be converted into each other. It also showed that they could both be converted into simple angular or linear motions. The linear motions seemed to be the simplest in structure, so I began to research the structure of motion. I found that linear motions are very simple and contain only three information structures. These are the motion's position in space, its direction of travel in space and its motion amplitude (speed) of its travel through space. All of the observational data indicated that the total number of energy photons and matter particles are not conserved because they can be converted into each other, which would change the number of them in the universe, but the total amount of motion in an interaction is always conserved. This meant that motions are the true energy entities and are the only entities that contain the ability of action within themselves as part of their structure. All other entities can only act or interact through the motions that are within them. I then began to determine how fields, energy photons, and matter particles can be built up out of simple linear motions. Simple linear motions that travel in three dimensions at the speed of light or less were ideal as the particles that make up fields. An energy photon also contains a linear motion that always has a motion amplitude of the speed of light and it also contains an additional cyclical motion that travels back and forth at ninety degrees to its direction of travel. If you consider that there is a fourth dimension and also consider that if a field particle (I call them sub-energy particles because they hold the position below that of an energy photon) receives enough motion that it would exceed the speed of light, it exceeds the threshold level above which all motion is transferred to this fourth dimension and if this fourth dimension is very small and is connected to the other three dimensions at ninety degrees like the others are to each other, then the back and forth motion of that extra motion in the fourth dimension as it travels to one end of the dimension and bounces off of the end and then travels to the other end and then bounces off of that end can create the observed frequency, wavelength, and dynamic mass effects of energy photons. Matter particles work in a similar, but more complex way. If the fourth dimensional motion exceeds a threshold level it can travel into the fifth dimension. Observational data shows that it does not automatically transfer there though. The presence of an angular motion component, such as that received from the sub-energy field near the nucleus of an atom, is also necessary to allow the transfer into the fifth dimension. The motion contained in the fifth dimension drains back down into the first three dimensions. The interface between the fifth dimension and the lower three dimensions is such that the motion begins to transfer into one of the lower three dimensions and the flow rate linearly increases to a maximum level and then decreases linearly back to zero. When the flow rate in one dimension reaches its maximum level, the flow begins into the next dimension. The flow rate reaches zero in the first dimension just as the rate reaches the maximum level in the second dimension. At the same time the flow begins in the third dimension and reaches its maximum level when the rate reaches zero in the second dimension and flow also then begins again in the first dimension. This cycle continues as long as motion remains in the fifth dimension. When the motion enters into the lower three dimensions from the fifth dimension, it would cause the energy photon to travel faster than the speed of light, but the extra motion is transferred back into the fourth dimension. All that is left of the transfer in the lower three dimensions is the angular component of the motion that continually changes the direction of travel of the photon, so that it takes a three dimensional curved path that encloses upon itself to create a continuous cyclical three dimensional enclosed path. The enclosed path is what we call a matter particle. The great amount of angular motion in all directions creates the matter particle's balanced rest mass effect. When the motion is transferred back into the fourth dimension it will transfer from there back into the fifth dimension if the fourth dimensional wavelength fits properly into the matter particle's enclosed path, such that the proper angular motion component is present to allow the transfer. If it does, the inter-dimensional motion transfer cycle is complete and the matter particle is stable. If it does not fit, the motion completely drains from the fifth dimension through the lower three dimensions and into the fourth dimension. In that case the matter particle's enclosed path disappears and the particle is transformed back into an energy photon, which travels off in some direction at the speed of light. All that is needed to explain everything is motions and a spatial system in which those motions can occupy positions and continually change from one position to the next in and can interact with each other in. This can all be done without breaking the laws of physics, which as you admit your theory requires. I use the word particles to identify the individual entities that exist whether they are field sub-energy particles, energy photons, or matter particles. I am not referring to the wave/particle duality concept in which energy photons are considered to be waves and matter particles are considered to be solid point particles that behave somewhat like little billiard balls with rest mass, etc. Neither of these concepts is true. Both energy photons and matter particles are partially composed of cyclical motion structures that can appear to be wave like during interactions, but they also produce angular motion components that generate mass effects during interactions that would appear to be particle like effects, etc. Such things as wave/particle duality, etc. that cannot be very well understood using quantum mechanics are clearly understood when the underlying motion structures are known. I read the first chapter of your book and I find that some of your logic that you use to justify your concepts appears to be based on assumptions that have no proof of validity. As an example you say that the basic entity must not contain the property of distance, but there is no logical reason that it could not just be the method of introduction of distance into the structure of the system. To put it another way, distance can be a property of the most basic entity and could introduce it into the rest of the structure of the system. The C^0 speed would have a value of one since any number to the zero power equals one. This has no real mathematical significance in the E^0 formula, so I guess you just left it in as a reminder that you are dealing with the lowest energy level compared to the levels where C^1 and C^2 are used. In your example you talk about a spinning point moving toward an adjacent point on one side of it and away from another point on the other side of it. You then say that other spinning points must be added to equal the pressure, so that the point will remain displaced in that new position. I am assuming that you don't actually mean that new points come into existence in those spaces, but only that it would take the amount of energy that those points would provide if they did exist. Is that right? Are you saying that the points can actually move in relation to one another and if so, where does the energy required to do so come from? If the point is to maintain itself in its new position that energy would have to be continually applied to it. This would mean that its source would have to be continuous. It would also seem to me that if a point moved toward another point, it would apply pressure on the point that it was traveling toward and that should then make that point move also in the same direction. In addition to this the point on its other side that it was moving away from should also move toward it because of the reduced pressure that it would experience on that side of it. Are you considering the energy that keeps the points separated from each other to be composed of the motion contained in the spinning points or is it composed of something else? One problem that I see is that in the beginning when there were no dimensions for points to exist in and be spread out or separated from one another in, only one point could possibly exist. If that point somehow began to spin, there would be no other points to create relative spin motion in comparison to it. There would be no place where there could be points that are closer or farther away from the spinning point because that would require at least one dimension to already be in existence that could contain more than one point and allow them to be in different positions from one another in that dimension. How do your account for this in your theory?

You are right that your concept of the structure of space-time does break all of the laws of physics, because you consider that the spin motion at the center of the point would be infinite and would decrease the farther away from the center you get, down to zero at an infinite distance when at all of the structural levels that man has come to understand so far, the rate increases the farther you are from the center and decreases to zero at the center point of the spin. As an example, a point on the surface of the earth at the equator would travel at the rate of about twenty four thousand miles a day, but a point near the north or south axis of spin that is one inch from the center of spin would only travel a little over three inches in a day. Of course, there would not be any place farther out from the center of the point because a point has no extension beyond its center for there to be any place where another point could exist unless the point exists in an already existent spatial system of one or more dimensions. If you have explanations for these things please let me know what they are. When I was talking about the generation of a balanced static mass effect in matter particles I was not talking about space-time level entities, I was talking about the construction of matter particles, such as electrons and protons, etc. I have not seen how you envision them to be constructed yet in your theory because your current paper and the first chapter of your book do not cover that level except a mention that they come from E^2 energy, unless I just missed it somehow. If you can give me that information of how you view matter particles to be constructed that could help me to better understand your theory. As I mentioned above my current model only requires the existence of motions and a spatial system for them to be positioned in, to travel from one position to the next in and to interact with other motions in and it does not require the breaking of the laws of physics, at least those that are truly applicable to reality, such as the laws of motion, etc. My current paper covers the fundamentals of the construction of all eight hierarchical levels of structure, since it is about "What is Fundamental". My other papers on this site's contests give more detailed information in several areas. The internal motions within matter particles entrain sub-energy field particles to travel through them, which generates their internal fields that keep the internal motions of matter particles in an atomic nucleus from interacting directly with each other. There is also an external field structure generated that captures electrons and is the interaction point of elastic interactions and also contains the particles (protons and neutrons) within the nucleus of the atom, etc. I have other questions also, but this is getting long, so I will stop here for now.

Sincerely,

Paul

Hi Scott I like the presentation of your essay as a day of creation of the universe. the times of day breaks it up into readable sections and I think it is an attractive literary tool, making it more than just information. Like some of your other readers I do wonder why after sweeping the board clean, you choose to keep certain theoretical pieces. For me, it is spacetime that needs putting to rest. I think you must consider it indispensable and yet it was Einstein (who is said to have) said-"We can't solve problems by using the same kind of thinking we used when we created them." Nevertheless you have presented your own model in a nice way and I appreciate the thought that has gone into it. Kind regards Georgina

Dear Dr. Scott S. Gordon,

You wrote: "The new math starts by expressing the properties of a component building block ingredient. This ingredient along with energy is the only ingredient required to build our universe and everything in it, starting with the building of spacetime itself. The new math must be simple because the universe starts with one basic ingredient which builds in complexity. The more complex the structures in the universe become, the more complex the math required to describe it."

My research has concluded that Nature must have devised the only permanent structure of the Universe obtainable for the real Universe existed for millions of years before man and his finite complex informational systems ever appeared on earth. The real physical Universe consists only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.

Joe Fisher, ORCID ID 0000-0003-3988-8687. Unaffiliated

Dear Dr. Scott S. Gordon,

My contention that the real Universe consists only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light am not a theory, it am an easily provable fact. You can only see a plethora of seamlessly enmeshed constantly changing flat looking varied colored surfaces no matter in which direction you look. It logically follows that only infinite surface am observable.

Joe Fisher, ORCID ID 0000-0003-3988-8687. Unaffiliated

Scott,

You were right to think I'd be fascinated to study another 'bottom up' approach. Our start points match; "the universe starts with one basic ingredient which builds in complexity".

You lost me a bit with 'rotating points' as a 'point' has no dimensions so can't rotate, but I agree rotation is key and you quickly reverted to compatibility with 'distinguishability' of rotations.

In 'new maths' I expected new laws rather than just new symbols & meanings, but probably wise as I can't see how most laws can be replaced. A fundamental I agree as very important is that constant 'c' always relates to an ambient frame.

What I found challenging is that what I consider as the two most flawed starting points of present doctrine needing to be discarded are 'space-time' and the 'Big Bang'! However again I quickly found you just used the 'labels' not the inferences, so no problem. However I'd vastly prefer 'dark energy' or 'ambient sub-quntum' medium' as tags. On the BB I've published on a consistent cyclic cosmology to replace it, but again your start point is equivalent to a re-ionization, so seems not a problem. Is it?

All in all quite novel & fun. But now the crunch' Stefan's point is valid. There are thousands of models out there but those of non-zero value to science are predictive and experimentally falsifiable in some way. I tried to think of some way to test yours but there doesn't seem to be one. That means it's probably no help in advancing from (or dispensing with!) current physics, though doesn't make it wrong or invalid.

Do stay with it as I think you may have some interesting foundations, but I should say my own derivations as quite the inverse, resolving anomalies & inconsistencies, predictive and experimentally provable. But do please check through it as I have yours if you have time and identify if & where you may disagree with that or see any flaws.

Also let me know if I've fundamentally misunderstood yours!

Very Best.

Peter

Hi, Scott. Your essay was fun to read, but I had problems with it all the way through. At the start, you having spinning points prior to space-time. Spinning is rotation in space, and a point has no extension, so what does that concept mean? At the end, you seem to imply that your theory explains the values of fundamental constants. Do you have any numerical predictions that you can offer as a demonstration? I has comparable questions all the way through.

Dear Scott,

I read your papers and first let me say that I believe that we hold one concept in common although it is expressed somewhat differently in our presented theories and that is that one of the two most basic entities in the observable universe is motion. Because you are locked into the natural creation viewpoint, it is understandable that you feel the need to consider the construction of the spatial system as the other most basic structure to explain the total construction of the universe. I, on the other hand, have decided to limit my current level of information transfer to man here to the construction of the next lower level of hierarchical structure of which man currently does not have a workable conceptual understanding, which is the level of matter particle, energy photon, and field particle structuring. I am doing this primarily for two reasons. First, an understanding of the construction of these entities will clear up many of the quantum and relativity nonsense beliefs, such as that things cannot happen unless they are observed, that the various particle interaction results and there probabilities of occurrence are due to some mysterious random quantum energy fluctuations of spatial vacuum, the concept of multiverses, and the idea from relativity that time is an existent dimension, etc. Once these erroneous concepts are eliminated, the math becomes much simpler and a complete understanding of the universe down to the level of the spatial system that is designed to provide the positions that basic motions can be on, can move from one to another on, and can interact with each other on and the basic motions that inhabit that spatial system can then be more easily understood. I, therefore, start with the existent spatial system and basic motions as the two most basic structures presented in my theory. I leave the mechanisms behind the structure of the spatial system that produces what we perceive as space and the outputs of the motions that are contained in that mechanism that we perceive as basic motions for a later information transfer when man has first been able to understand the levels down to that mechanism. The second reason that I do not provide that information at this point is that man in this world would like to think of himself as god with power over everything and, therefore, would not readily accept that there is someone much greater than him who has constructed the universe and everything in it. The problem is that when you go beyond the simple level of the spatial system and its basic motions to what generates and maintains that system and those motions, the complexity expands outward in the same way that it expands in the other direction when you go from the simple motions to the construction of sub-energy particles, energy photons, matter particles, all of the different atoms that can be constructed of them, all of the great multitude of different possible molecules that can be constructed from the atoms, and the innumerable large scale objects that can be made of them, etc. It is like figuring out after a lot of observation and then putting those observations into a coherent understanding of your world, that you are really just the output images on a very large television screen or computer monitor except that instead of just being made of a light output, you are also made of matter particle and sub-energy field outputs and in three dimensions instead of just the two dimensional TV screen. The organizations of these outputs as they appear in your world require a behind the scenes complex mechanism in the same way that the television also requires to display its image and in addition to that a more complex information structure is needed to generate the actual entities that appear on the screen and to update them as a result of their interactions, etc. The problem is that you have no way to observe those behind the scenes mechanisms. If, on the other hand, the one who made the television and the other needed mechanisms would write a book that gives some of the details of their construction and would then display that book on the screen, so you could read it, you might be able to get some understanding of it. That is what has actually happened, but that is for the next level of understanding, which most people would not currently be able to accept, because of their naturalist outlook on life that prevents them from considering or looking into such things.

To get back to your paper, you either have a problem of lack of understanding of how things work or you have not developed the language to properly express them. First you say that the void contains a very large number of points. If that is the case then these points must be existent entities of some nature. You say that they can possess the property of containing motion. This suggests that in order to contain a motion within themselves they must be composed of some substance that can interact with a motion and contain it. You do not address what the points are composed of, which makes an unanswered more basic concept yet to be developed. You say that the motion contained within the point is in the form of a spin. Basic motions continually move from one point to the next. This requires an existent spatial system of at least one dimension for them to travel in. A spinning motion is a cyclical motion that requires at least a two dimensional spatial system to exist in. This is because a spinning motion is the result of continual interactions between two or more motions acting at directional angles to each other. If the spin that you are talking about does not conform to the laws of motion then you should not use that analogy, but instead make a new word and then define it to describe the details of what is actually happening and also the same thing about the point if it does not conform to the current definition of a mathematical point. If all of these points exist in the void, it seems that the void that you are talking about does not conform to the basic understanding of it as being an empty spatial system. You could also consider the void to be completely nothing, but nothing could not contain anything even zero dimensional points that possess properties such as the ability to spin, etc. Without the existence of any dimensions, the only thing that could exist is just one point because if any more points existed they would create a one dimensional world in that a motion could travel the distance that would be created between them from one point to the other. In reference to a primary spinning point, you talk about the surrounding or adjacent points. In a zero dimensional world, there could not be any other points next to or surrounding the point because there would be no possible positions in existence that were next to or surrounding the point without the construction of at least one dimension to provide positions for those points to exist in. One point could not be relatively closer or farther away from another point without forming a distance between them. You say "Relative motion of each surrounding point represents a circular path". A path is a way that can be traveled from one place to another, which is essentially a distance that can be traveled. A circular path requires the existence of at least two dimensions because a circle is a two dimensional object. When you talk about a god entity's energy field, what is that energy field composed of? Is it something that would exist as part of the entity even if it is not spinning or is it either the spinning motion itself or somehow caused by that motion? When you talk about the existence of an infinite energy field across a god entity's diameter are you saying that the field contains an infinite amount of energy? If the entity is a zero dimensional point it would seem that its diameter would be zero also. When you talk about E2 energy you say "is associated with a particle that displaces the surface of the water medium in a circular motion of the water. This constant circular motion of the water is required for the creation of E2 energy contained in particles". What is the water that you are mentioning and since this is at the scale of entities that exist in space-time and not as those existing as space-time it would seem that their motions should conform to the observed laws of motion, so how is the circular motion generated and maintained in them? I am assuming that the circular motion is what you consider to be the source of the matter particle's rest mass. A normal circular motion is a two dimensional entity. It can exist in a three dimensional object, but it does not produce a three dimensionally uniform mass effect. As an example, If you have two spheres of the same size that are rotating at the same speed in the same direction (counterclockwise), such that the axis of one is parallel to the axis of the other and they move toward each other with the center of one heading directly toward the center of the other and then they interact with each other, the interaction side of one will be moving in one direction that is perpendicular to its direction of travel in one direction while the interaction side of the other will be traveling in the opposite direction in a line that is also perpendicular to its direction of travel. This will cause a mass effect that will tend to cause the spheres to repel each other. If, on the other hand, you bring them together, such that the axis line of one is aligned with the axis line of the other and they are both rotating in the same direction, when they come together their rotation does not introduce a mass effect because the rotation does not exist relative to one another. It requires a three dimensional motion to maintain an equal static mass effect in all directions around the matter particle.

You may have a good point, but it is counterproductive to use examples that exhibit behaviors that are opposite to those that you are trying to convey. It would be better to make up new words for the new objects or concepts and then describe their behaviors as meticulously as you can while at the same time keeping the explanations of your concepts as simple as possible. I will stop for now and wait for your reply to clarify to me about these things.

Sincerely,

Paul

Dear Scott,

In your approach, I miss the efforts of Garrett Birkhoff and John von Neumann to establish a fundament that emerges into a suitable modeling platform. In their 1936 paper, they introduced a relational structure that they called quantum logic and that mathematicians call an orthomodular lattice. It automatically emerges into a separable Hilbert space, which also introduces a selected set of number systems into the modeling platform. Hilbert spaces can only cope with division rings and separable Hilbert spaces can store discrete values but no continuums. Each infinite dimensional separable Hilbert space owns a unique non-separable Hilbert space that embeds its separable partner. In this way, the structure and the functionality of the platform grow in a restricted way. After a few steps a very powerful and flexible modeling platform evolves. This model acts as a repository for dynamic geometric data that fit in quaternionic eigenvalues of dedicated operators. The non-separable part of the model can archive continuums that are defined by quaternionic functions.

In other words, the foundation that was discovered by Birkhoff and von Neumann delivers a base model that can offer the basement of well-founded theories and that puts restrictions on the dimensions which universe can claim.

Multiple Hilbert spaces can share the same underlying vector space and form a set of platforms that float on a background platform. On those platforms can live objects that hop around in a stochastic hopping path. This adds dynamics to the model.

The orthomodular lattice acts like a seed from which a certain kind of plant grows. Here the seed turns into the physical reality that we perceive.

Stochastic processes generate the hop landing locations and characteristic functions control these processes. These characteristic functions are the Fourier transform of the location density distribution of the hop landing location swarm that represents the elementary particle.

This delivers the holographic control of these elementary modules. Also, higher level modules are controlled by stochastic processes that own a characteristic function.

See: "Stochastic control of the universe"; http://vixra.org/abs/1712.0243 Indirectly via the characteristic functions the universe is controlled in a holographic way.

The Wikiversity Hilbert Book Model Project investigates this approach.

https://en.wikiversity.org/wiki/Hilbert_Book_Model_Project

http://vixra.org/author/j_a_j_van_leunen contains documents that treat some highlights of the project.

Hi Scott S Gordon,

"The "Nightmare Scenario" as stated by Sabine Hossenfelder in her article, "Finding New Particles at the LHC .....is really more confusing.... "we'd finally have to admit the truth: we're completely lost." Given the current impasse of theoretical physics, it is time to wipe out ourselves of preconceived notions of what we think we know about time and space. In essence we need to "go back to the drawing board". Since we have no idea where the current impasse is rooted, everything we think we know about time and space needs to be questioned. In other words, the drawing board needs to be a clean slate"...................

.......... very nice idea.... The Day After the "Nightmare Scenario" dear Gordon...is the real future vision... I highly appreciate your essay and hope for reciprocity.

You may please know that in the Dynamic Universe Model the space time continuum was not there by default. And some more is there...... I request you please spend some of the valuable time on Dynamic Universe Model also and give your some of the valuable & esteemed guidance

Some of the Main foundational points of Dynamic Universe Model :

-No Isotropy

-No Homogeneity

-No Space-time continuum

-Non-uniform density of matter, universe is lumpy

-No singularities

-No collisions between bodies

-No blackholes

-No warm holes

-No Bigbang

-No repulsion between distant Galaxies

-Non-empty Universe

-No imaginary or negative time axis

-No imaginary X, Y, Z axes

-No differential and Integral Equations mathematically

-No General Relativity and Model does not reduce to GR on any condition

-No Creation of matter like Bigbang or steady-state models

-No many mini Bigbangs

-No Missing Mass / Dark matter

-No Dark energy

-No Bigbang generated CMB detected

-No Multi-verses

Here:

-Accelerating Expanding universe with 33% Blue shifted Galaxies

-Newton's Gravitation law works everywhere in the same way

-All bodies dynamically moving

-All bodies move in dynamic Equilibrium

-Closed universe model no light or bodies will go away from universe

-Single Universe no baby universes

-Time is linear as observed on earth, moving forward only

-Independent x,y,z coordinate axes and Time axis no interdependencies between axes..

-UGF (Universal Gravitational Force) calculated on every point-mass

-Tensors (Linear) used for giving UNIQUE solutions for each time step

-Uses everyday physics as achievable by engineering

-21000 linear equations are used in an Excel sheet

-Computerized calculations uses 16 decimal digit accuracy

-Data mining and data warehousing techniques are used for data extraction from large amounts of data.

- Many predictions of Dynamic Universe Model came true....Have a look at

http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/p/blog-page_15.html

I request you to please have a look at my essay also, and give some of your esteemed criticism for your information........

Dynamic Universe Model says that the energy in the form of electromagnetic radiation passing grazingly near any gravitating mass changes its in frequency and finally will convert into neutrinos (mass). We all know that there is no experiment or quest in this direction. Energy conversion happens from mass to energy with the famous E=mC2, the other side of this conversion was not thought off. This is a new fundamental prediction by Dynamic Universe Model, a foundational quest in the area of Astrophysics and Cosmology.

In accordance with Dynamic Universe Model frequency shift happens on both the sides of spectrum when any electromagnetic radiation passes grazingly near gravitating mass. With this new verification, we will open a new frontier that will unlock a way for formation of the basis for continual Nucleosynthesis (continuous formation of elements) in our Universe. Amount of frequency shift will depend on relative velocity difference. All the papers of author can be downloaded from "http://vaksdynamicuniversemodel.blogspot.in/ "

I request you to please post your reply in my essay also, so that I can get an intimation that you replied

Best

=snp