Dear James Putnam,

As you've pointed out in previous essays, mass is not properly defined by F = ma. Richard Feynman also pointed out that F = ma is a circular definition. He concluded that its utility derives from "when we observe an acceleration, we should look for a force". However this does not solve the problem you're focused on.

Einstein confused (or clarified) things further with E = m (c = 1) which identifies mass with energy. We know that fields have energy, hence are 'substantial', but their materiality is more like a 'perfect fluid' than 'solid matter'. From this, one might conclude either that energy undergoes a phase transition and becomes 'solid matter' or that, under appropriate conditions, a compressed configuration of the field become stable enough to endure as an observable 'object'.

In any case, it is as you say:

"Some things are undeniable and the lack of definition of mass is one of them."

In my opinion the 'Higgs field' is evidence of the confusion of which you speak. It appears to be the only 'mass' without spin. I really do believe your focus on fundamentals is valuable and well-placed. It treats one of those issues that is right in front of our eyes, but we don't see it. As you note, the first properties of physics have no properties pre-existing them. "There are no properties available by which length and time may be defined," nor "predefined properties before the introduction of force and mass." In other words, the whole thing is bootstrapped. JRC asked me last week what are the units of time, decoupled from space. The answer is one second per second.

After discussing thermodynamics and Coulomb's law in similar terms you address 'space-time', "both properties that are completely unavailable to us to affect them." You note "there's been no experimentation directly upon the properties of space and time." Einstein acknowledges his 'imaginary experiments' or 'gedanken' experiments from which he concluded that 'simultaneity is relative'.

I had forgotten that your first essay was on 'The Absoluteness of Time' in the first FQXi contest. Perhaps I'm catching up with you in my current essay. I hope you will read my essay and grace me with your comments. I will score your essay later.

Best wishes, my friend,

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Thank you Edwin,

This essay was not finished and was submitted anyway. I tried writing it, but the subject kept changing. It wasn't until the last day that I knew what the subject and title would be. So, as the deadline loomed, I submitted it without properly proofreading it. In the past this happened once before and a math error crept in back then just as it has in this essay. Back then it tortured me. This time it doesn't. There is no way that theoretical physicists are going to recognize let alone acknowledge that they have errors in their foundation. So my essays do not do well here. However, I keep coming back, because FQXi.org is a quality organization and the privilege that they offer to participate alongside professionals is golden. I want to be included in their history. This is though not a place for me to gain an audience. I have taken the step of starting a Facebook group where free expression of scientific ideas for all members is enforced by me. There is resistance there also; however, there are well over 2000 members and discussions have become more serious. I have made the corrections necessary to my essay. I will post it there also. The overlord problem has been removed from physics discussions. I am glad to hear from you again. I think about you and your work often. You are ahead of theoretical physics because of two things. Theoretical physics contains uncorrected errors. It contains fundamental disunity. It has nothing to say about the existence of the most important properties of this Universe, i.e., intelligence and life. You are far more accurate in your presentations. You are far more diligent in establishing your foundation. You are far more scientific in that you address the existence of intelligence and life. You present highly competent professional work that addresses the fullness of this Universe. Theoretical physics (this is just my opinion for readers and not a reflection on your opinions) is stuck in the mud with foundational errors such as believing that the letter 't' in physics equations represents the fundamental property of time; and, omissions such as the failure to define mass; and, is locked into a low level mechanical interpretation of the nature of this Universe that gave birth to intelligent life culminating in human free will. Much of my concerns have been presented here at this great website FQXi.org. Good luck in the contest. My interest lies elsewhere in firmly establishing a place on the Internet where the free exchange of scientific ideas is protected and promoted. I don't know enough physics, but, like Mr. Miyagi advised, I trust in the quality of what I know. Good to hear from you. Glad to see you back again. With respect, your friend James

    James,

    Lol. I think that one day the name for elemental science will be Holographics, not Physics.

    Light and space.

      Dear Jim,

      I'm pleased and impressed to hear of your 2000 members. After this contest closes I will have a look. There are two key separate issues: analyzing the problem and solving the problem; either or both may be right or wrong. In the past you've often combined the two, thereby giving deniers two shots at you. In this essay you primarily analyze the problem, while leaving your own theory in the background. I think this is the best way to do it. Similarly, in my current essay I analyze the problem, while leaving my own theory largely unmentioned. Hopefully we will both benefit from this tight focus.

      My best,

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Dear Mr. Putnam

      You have identified well, the main problems in physics. I also was confused by the system of units, than I used a dimensionalles relationships. Thus, in my essay, Table 2 is expressed in relation to Planck's values. Nothing new, but everything becomes easier and clearer. So the mass ceases to be a problem. BTW, if you look at Bošković's Philosophy of Nature you'll see that there is no definition of mass than the Forces are object of analysis.

      With best wishes,

      Branko

        quote

        This chain was never formed because mass was never defined. We didn't learn what

        mass was at the time that it was introduced to us by empirical evidence. We can't learn it

        from any other source afterwards. It has to be learned at the time that it is introduced to

        us by its empirical evidence. It was not understood how to formally define both mass and

        force from f=ma. That did not happen and mass was declared to be a property that is so

        fundamental that it is indefinable. This decision enabled theorists to proceed to derive

        other physics equations. However, into all of those equations that include mass, there

        was the spread of lack of knowledge throughout the fundamentals of theoretical physics.

        It was the beginning of theory. The theory was that mass was indefinable. Physics began

        by being made a part of a theory; thereby instantly making physics into theoretical

        physics.

        end of quote

        Excuse me, what about the Higgs boson ?

        Care to explain that paragraph again ? I mean, really !!

        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Higgs_boson

          James,

          Glad to see you bring this up in the essay contest. While we have agreed to disagree on some things, I have felt it reasonable to seek a proper genaeralized definition of inertia. And of course it is by the indefinite operational definition for inertia we have had since Galileo that *mass* is proposed. To state that a body in motion tends to remain in motion, and a body at rest tends to remain at rest; says nothing about what it must be about inertia which is the same for any *mass* regardless of its state of motion. Good Luck, jrc

          Dear James,

          I cannot see any problem with definition of mass, charge, space and time.

          The mass is source of gravitation field. The inverse value of gravitation constant show propagation of field in space.

          Similarly the electric charge is source of electric field and the inverse value of k = 1/4πε in the Coulomb's law is the propagation of electric field.

          The space is synonym for gravitation field of Universe and the absolute time is the expansion rate of Universe (see my essay "Fundamental entities in physics").

          If we add the baryon charge and the propagation of strong force field we get full sett of entities for unified description of Universe.

          Another question: are these entities comfortable for practical measurement systems?

          Regards

          Ilgaitis

            Hi Andrew, Thank you for your message:

            What I explained is real! Mass, in theoretical physics, is an undefined property. The point that that explanation is at is the introduction of mass and how to define it so that it may be used correctly in physics equations. There is no need for the Higg's Boson. That is a solution that the Standard model needs. The verification of such a boson is a matter of solving a conservation of energy equation. The idea that one can form a particle if one supplies sufficient energy is recognized, but whether or not it delivers mass that is unneeded is for the Standard model to explain.

            There are just two properties that are inferred to exist by empirical evidence directly. One is mass. A property doesn't get a better introduction than that. Whatever mass is, it is there to be learned from the same empirical evidence that introduced it to us. There is no other source for learning what it is. It is not needed for patch up work. It is needed so that the equations of physics and the terms that they contain are based upon knowing what is this property that is pushed upfront by empirical evidence.

            The empirically supported definition of mass shows that mass is the essence of a particle of matter. The Higg's Boson is a particle that has not been shown to deliver mass. The standard model was developed in contradiction to the need for theoretical physics to first know what mass is. I see no need for a special particle to deliver that which is always present in every particle of matter. Especially since no one's theory can be correct without knowing right from the time that mass was introduced, what it is

            Empirical evidence leads the way to establishing the foundation upon which the equations of physics must be formulated. The equations of physics flow forward from definitions. Those definitions must be made in the same strict manner that has been followed from the beginning of theory to this day. Theory doesn't do this. Theory thrives on what it does not know. Theory consists of filling in the blanks left by the unknown with imaginative guesses that make the mathematics look like it is working.

              Hi Andrew, Thank you for your message:

              What I explained is real! Mass, in theoretical physics, is an undefined property. The point that that explanation is at is the introduction of mass and how to define it so that it may be used correctly in physics equations. There is no need for the Higg's Boson. That is a solution that the Standard model needs. The verification of such a boson is a matter of solving a conservation of energy equation. The idea that one can form a particle if one supplies sufficient energy is recognized, but whether or not it delivers mass that is unneeded is for the Standard model to explain.

              There are just two properties that are inferred to exist by empirical evidence directly. One is mass. A property doesn't get a better introduction than that. Whatever mass is, it is there to be learned from the same empirical evidence that introduced it to us. There is no other source for learning what it is. It is not needed for patch up work. It is needed so that the equations of physics and the terms that they contain are based upon knowing what is this property that is pushed upfront by empirical evidence.

              The empirically supported definition of mass shows that mass is the essence of a particle of matter. The Higg's Boson is a particle that has not been shown to deliver mass. The standard model was developed in contradiction to the need for theoretical physics to first know what mass is. I see no need for a special particle to deliver that which is always present in every particle of matter. Especially since no one's theory can be correct without knowing right from the time that mass was introduced, what it is

              Empirical evidence leads the way to establishing the foundation upon which the equations of physics must be formulated. The equations of physics flow forward from definitions. Those definitions must be made in the same strict manner that has been followed from the beginning of theory to this day. Theory doesn't do this. Theory thrives on what it does not know. Theory consists of filling in the blanks left by the unknown with imaginative guesses that make the mathematics look like it is working.

              hi Ilgaitis,

              "I cannot see any problem with definition of mass, charge, space and time."

              None of those properties have physics definitions. The only one that even has an effort made to establish a definition is electric charge. The problem with the definition of the Coulomb is that it counts the number of charges in an ampere of current. Counting the number of charges is not a definition of what is electric charge.

              I think that the points you make represent your work. Is this correct?

              "Another question: are these entities comfortable for practical measurement systems?"

              Yes.

              HI John, Nice to hear from you. Your point is well made.

              Hi John,

              You are very good with theory. I just don't have the same appreciation for theory. I do have an appreciation for your messages.

              Hi Branko,

              I look forward to reading your essay. Thank you for your kind message.

              Many thanks,

              This was a hilarious Reading, and also a bit sad, because I have tampered with many of those 'problems' and know it is true as you describe it...

              "Every single principle that we teach in intro college physics is based on only two principles: Conservation of momentum, and conservation of energy/mass. That's it! All other 'laws' are based on those two principles - be it Newtonian mechanics, thermodynamics, E&M, etc... We can write the energy equations of the Lagrangian/Hamiltonian because of conservation of energy. Each conservation principle is based on some underlying symmetry of our physical world. Conservation of momentum is based on the isotropic symmetry of empty space, conservation of energy on the symmetry of time. So these are the FUNDAMENTAL assumptions that we build all of our understanding on (ignoring the CPT conservation rules)."

              So, if we assume the basic process is asymmetric and we have problems with energy conservation, at least in general relativity, the mess is clear...

              I write about asymmetry in the 'Life-force' Take a look, leave comments and vote, thanks. https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3093

              This essay is the very best one :)

              Ulla Mattfolk.

                I read what you said several times, and it still does not make sense

                Read this and please respond to it

                https://www.britannica.com/science/mass-physics

                Mass, in physics, quantitative measure of inertia, a fundamental property of all matter. It is, in effect, the resistance that a body of matter offers to a change in its speed or position upon the application of a force. The greater the mass of a body, the smaller the change produced by an applied force. By international agreement the standard unit of mass, with which the masses of all other objects are compared, is a platinum-iridium cylinder of one kilogram. This unit is commonly called the International Prototype Kilogram and is kept at the International Bureau of Weights and Measures in Sティvres, France. In countries that continue to favour the English system of measurement over the International System of Units (SI), the unit of mass is the slug, a mass whose weight at sea level is 32.17 pounds.

                Weight, though related to mass, nonetheless differs from the latter. Weight essentially constitutes the force exerted on matter by the gravitational attraction of the Earth, and so it varies from place to place. In contrast, mass remains constant regardless of its location under ordinary circumstances. A satellite launched into space, for example, weighs increasingly less the further it travels away from the Earth. Its mass, however, stays the same.

                According to the principle of conservation of mass, the mass of an object or collection of objects never changes, no matter how the constituent parts rearrange themselves. If a body split into pieces, the mass divides with the pieces, so that the sum of the masses of the individual pieces is equal to the original mass. Or, if particles are joined together, the mass of the composite is equal to the sum of the masses of the constituent particles. However, this principle is not always correct.

                With the advent of the special theory of relativity by Einstein in 1905, the notion of mass underwent a radical revision. Mass lost its absoluteness. The mass of an object was seen to be equivalent to energy, to be interconvertible with energy, and to increase significantly at exceedingly high speeds near that of light (about 3 テ-- 108 metres per second, or 186,000 miles per second). The total energy of an object was understood to comprise its rest mass as well as its increase of mass caused by high speed. The rest mass of an atomic nucleus was discovered to be measurably smaller than the sum of the rest masses of its constituent neutrons and protons. Mass was no longer considered constant, or unchangeable. In both chemical and nuclear reactions, some conversion between mass and energy occurs, so that the products generally have smaller or greater mass than the reactants. The difference in mass is so slight for ordinary chemical reactions that mass conservation may be invoked as a practical principle for predicting the mass of products. Mass conservation is invalid, however, for the behaviour of masses actively involved in nuclear reactors, in particle accelerators, and in the thermonuclear reactions in the Sun and stars. The new conservation principle is the conservation of mass-energy. See also energy, conservation of; energy; Einstein's mass-energy relation.

                end of quote

                How is this NOT satisfactory?

                Dear James A Putnam,

                FQXi.org is clearly seeking to confirm whether Nature is fundamental.

                Reliable evidence exists that proves that the surface of the earth was formed millions of years before man and his utterly complex finite informational systems ever appeared on that surface. It logically follows that Nature must have permanently devised the only single physical construct of earth allowable.

                All objects, be they solid, liquid, or vaporous have always had a visible surface. This is because the real Universe must consist only of one single unified VISIBLE infinite surface occurring eternally in one single infinite dimension that am always illuminated mostly by finite non-surface light.

                Only the truth can set you free.

                Joe Fisher, Realist

                Ulla Marianne Mattfolk,

                What a wonderful message to receive. Those who follow what I write are few. Years go by and the same points are made over and over again with little success. Well there is some success, I think I have gotten better at making this case. It is unfortunate that I didn't complete this essay on time. Yet, it tells me something about you that you look passed the inconvenience of typos and the embarrassment of having written some of the math wrong. There wasn't time to fix it; but there had been lots of time to have done it sooner. I apologize for its condition; however, your final remark obscures what is wrong with the emotional pleasure of receiving an A grade. Thank you for understanding this essay. I look forward to reading yours soon. With admiration, James

                Andrew, This is a great question. I have to show why the encyclopedia Britannica doesn't define mass. Letting you know that I am working on my response. James

                Dear James,

                that's an interesting essay, thank you for sharing. You made some interesting claims, and I enjoyed specially your comment about empiricism, space and time.

                All the best,

                Francesco D'isa