The Nature of Time

Jim Snowdon

What if we lived on the dark side of the Moon? We would never see the Sun.

We would see a black sky of stars. We would always in the dark!

Would we still cling a firm belief in time as some kind of real thing?

I wonder if we would believe in extra-dimensions?

Georgina Woodward

Hi Jim, 'dark side' is really a misnomer. It means obscured or hidden from sight, or unknown rather than literally permanently dark. Far side is a better name. Dark side of the moon : )

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

Or we could call it the Cold Side? It certainly is at minus 173 degrees Celsius, which is minus 280 degrees Fahrenheit!

On the Hot Side it`s plus 127 degrees Celsius, which is plus 260 Fahrenheit!

Jim Snowdon

We would see the beautiful blue Earth rotating against the enormous black sky! We would set our 24 hour clocks in calibration to the Earth`s rotation.

Jim Snowdon

When there are towns on the Moon, there will be Earth time based on the Earth`s 24 hour rotational period, and Moon time, based on the Moon`s 28 day rotation.

S. David Coleman

Hi Jim George, Amrit, Georgina, Steve

Isn't time simply using a constant, steady motion (like that of the earth) to measure other motions with?

Much the same as using a specific amount of space (yardstick or mile) to measure space.

More at MEDIUM.

Jim Snowdon

Hi David,

The Earth`s rotational motion is indeed, constant and steady. It`s speeds along at 1,700 kilometers per hour at the Equator.

What other constant steady motions did you have in mind?

Measuring with a yardstick is not the same thing as a motion that compels every living creature on the planet.

Georgina Woodward

Hi David, I think it is useful to separate timing with any kind of clock from ideas about what time is 'outside of timing. A clock generates regular events which are counted, or could be. Which are used for comparison with other events or processes. Planetary motion can be used as the regular event. A time, by my way of thinking, is a configuration of existence. Faster and slower rates that can be timed correspond to more or less change happening to parts of the complete configuration of existence.

S. David Coleman

Hi Georgina,

Yes separating out clock time makes sense to me, but I would distinguish it from psychological time or our sense of time which, as I see it, is inherent to memory and to how our brain works. Memory without a timeline is just gibberish. when we see things happening "in time" I think we're seeing things through our thought processes, through our memory.

I'm afraid "configuration of existence" is very vague, I don't really understand what that is.

S. David Coleman

Hi Jim George,

The motion(s) that compel everything are all the motions, atomic to galactic with each interacting and effecting each other.

The other motion that I see that is more constant,steadier and as invisible as time is quantum motion and I have a hunch that our intuitive sense of time is partially based on this (as well as molecular motion). So many changes and invisible interactions are due to theses motions which are quite random in and of them selves, but are very predictable and stable as a compilation.

Jim Snowdon

Hi David,

Everything is in motion including at the Quantum level.

Are you arguing that time somehow generates a particular type of motion? Or, would you agrees that time has nothing to do with creating any kind of time?

Are you saying time exists or not?

Jim Snowdon

Are you saying the role of Quantum motion is the cause of our intuitive sense of time existing? Rather than the Earth`s rotational motion causing our confusion about the nature of time?

Vesuvius Now

Woodward, are you an A-theorist or a B-theorist? And a Presentist or an Eternalist? How do you incorporate the relativity of simultaneity from Relativity?

Georgina Woodward

Hi Vesuvius Now, Not an A theorist OR B theorist. I want both series under my own terms. B for existential realty and A for derived observation product reality.. Rather than such an event being future, Present and past, it is not yet received sensory inputs, observation products and then records, including memory.

I'm not a Presentist exactly. I'd say a Uni-temporalist, as I think material reality necessarily precedes present awareness of it. Due to the non infinite speed of light and signal transmission delays. Relativity of simultaneity comes from the different amounts of Foundational time (change of the configurations of existence) it takes to reach the observers at their locations. Then input, when received and processed, is experienced in the observer's own Present.

Thanks for asking.

Vesuvius Now

You'd probably be interested in this paper by Rovelli: "Neither Presentism nor Eternalism" at https://arxiv.org/abs/1910.02474

Georgina Woodward

Yes interesting. Quick look. Will read later. Carlo does not differentiate existential material becoming (-Now), from what is experienced now ( Present observation product OP).OP Which is not Object (noumenal) reality but Image (phenomenal) reality. I.e. What is of itself and what is derived from sensory inputs that have emanated from material sources. An observer's Present does not have to be local. Observation products are generated from whatever the sensory inputs received. Distant starlight and nearby owl can be part of the same observer's Present. It has taken longer for the starlight emitted photons than owl reflected photons to arrive at the observer. So the content of the observation product has temporal spread. Mot matching the uni-temporal (one time- youngest configuration only) material reality environment. Carlo says the A series is not needed.| I can be adapted as outlined in last post, within but not material existence.

Georgina Woodward

Correction Not not Mot, and It not I.

Georgina Woodward

Perhaps I should explain "within but not material existence." better. I was trying to keep it brief but at the expense of accuracy. There is no material future or past. EM r and other potential stimuli are of course material and exist but what is encoded is not. That may be regarded as the observer's potential pre-written future. As it could lead to the recipients Present experience of it. Which is also not material reality. Nor is the content of records and memories. Although the means of storage such as books and neurons are material.

Jim Snowdon

When we establish a town on the sunlit side of the Moon, where it is 125 degrees Celsius, we will stay under glass.

Heating and energy is no problem. Water, air, and fuel will be produced locally.

It`s sunlight all the time on the bright side of the Moon! Sunlight and lethal heat 24/7. Np seasons either!

Jim Snowdon

When we establish a town on the Dark Side of the Moon, where it is minus 173 degrees Celsius, we will stay under glass.

Heating and energy will be a big problem. Water, Oxygen, and fuel will be produced locally.

It`s a beautiful starry sky, forever, on the Dark Side of the Moon! Night time and lethal cold 24/7. No season`s either.

S. David Coleman

Hi Georgina,

I also, wanted to respond to the materialist perspective. Yes, no past or future. It keeps things grounded. Past and future can only exist as representation or memory.

Georgina Woodward

Hi David. Given that vision and hearing require sensory input. And that input is used to form Present experience. It can be argued that the inputs that are not yet received but in the environment -Now (I.e. potential stimuli) be regarded as pre-written future. Both pre-written future and records and memories are -parts of -Now, not different time realms.

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