The Nature of Time

Steve Dufourny

unfortunally , all what you tell is an assumption not proved and all your ideas are not innovative, you reapet things known mixed with affirmations not proved, sorry but it is a fact, you have not proved that the DM does not exist, you don t consider foundamental objects and your philosophy general about the origin of this universe and this antiverse is just in your head unfortunally, like all you have just assumpotions and you have not proved them, so maybe you could doubt instead to affirm, it is not like this this that the sciences act, doubt and calculate your assumptions, after maybe we could accept them, at this moment you just discuss and nothing ir really concrete and proved. Too much affirmations not proved simply, me I don t affirm my assumptions, I work on them to prove them, you could make the same Steve Humbly in recognising this like all rational thinkers trying to explain our unknowns.

Steve Dufourny

I know what is a biphoton, I speak about the fact that you consider only photons like primordial essence, and also that you have made the same than verlinde in modifying this newtonian mechanics and so you forget this DM, it is not proved, your antiverse like balance, the same it is not proved, and you don t develop the correlated philosophy, thirdly, you consider gravitons, they are not proved and are hypothetical and 4 what do you consider like foundamental objects, develop, and explain , are they points or strings and why , and what are your geometrical algebras, but there also it is not proved, the nmatter action is not the problem and the bipohotons also, the proofs are the problem about this planck scale, the main codes and the philosophical origin, so you can repeat and tell all what you want, that will not change the fact that all are just assumptions not proved.

Steve Dufourny

your balance is not bad about a kind of antimatter for this universe ,so an antiverse but it is not proved and you cannot affirm simply and I repeat, the same for your ideas about this DM, and the same for your gravitons, but apparently you affrim these thingfs like facts, where are the formalisations and mathematical proofs ?

Steve Dufourny

the same for your aether , you consider a luminiferous aether like main primordial essence, it is not proved , and you speak about the matter action discrete like if we had what ??? what is the cause of these matters actions, fields ??? and why ? strings and oscillations and why ? have you proved them ?no you have not

Steve Dufourny

what I try to explain is that this antimatter is necessary because we need a balance for our ordinary matter , but the fact to affrim its origin and its mechanics is odd, we don t know this balance, all what we have actually are assumptions about this balance , and you can utilise the schrodinger and klein gordon equations or einstein fields equations , that will not change the problem that we don t know this real origin of this universal balance, I consider a cold dark matter but me I don t affirm, you you affir, feynman had its ideas but he didn t affrim, the same for dirac , they thought differently but they didn t affirm, they have not proved these unknowns simply and they recognised this. This universal balance is the main important problem for me and if we find the solution, we solve many unknowns, but we cannot affirm actually simply, so why you affirm ???

Steve Dufourny

that implies also that we don t know about this time , dirac and feynman had different points of vue about this anti matter, so how can we affirm things that we cannoty prove actually, it seems odd, that is why we must doubt and begin a post aboiut these things by maybe I beleive that...or I have an idea but I am not sure I have not proved still, but no, you you come with assumptions and you affirm them ????

Steve Dufourny

A sure thing is that we need this balance and we have had proofs with several experiments like the Lawrence livemoreNational Laboratory, if my memory is correct they have discovered these positrons with the decays matter anti matter, but we don t know nor its origin philosophical and physical. I have a model that I don t affir, Dirac had his ideas, Feynman also , like Hawking and the BHs, and others also but all we recognise that we don t know really this hard problem. We have just assumptions I repeat. For me and I don t affirm, it is correlated with this cold Dark matter because it is also encoded in nuclei for me, and the day that we shall check this anti matter it will be revolutionary , that can be even utilised for the propulsions and the energetical systems, but we are not there actually.

Steve Dufourny

In fact , all is a question of positive energy and negative energy but never it is said that we need an antiverse for this negative energy, and never it is said that we must only consider E=mc^2 , what we must do in logic is to complete this equation and the dark cold metter seems one of the most logic interpretation and furthermore can explain the evolution and furthermore can predict the future of this universe , the baryogenesis can be better understood simply with this negative energy like this cold dark matter turning in opposite sense even in my model and in the cold, that permit to balance really , I don t affirm of course, but I see like that. It is there that my equation intuitive becomes relevant for the baryogenesis and the neutrality of the dark matter,not need of an antiverse and all is inside the universe simply,See that this Dark matter explains the problem of this antimatter lacking furthermore and this evolution , it is very important like idea. All this reasoning permits to go deeper even than this BB and inflation, due to a kind even of primoridal gravitational essence and correlated energy, fields and matters, well see now the annihilation and the CP violation .... you shall understand better my cosmological model of spherisation

Jason Wolfe

The luminiferous aether, taking it out of the realm of alchemy and relocating into theoretical physics, is the effect of expanding gravitons that fill all of space with momentum and position quantum states... places for particles to inhabit and permissible velocities.

Steve Dufourny

we see a little bit the same about the expanding gravitons like main primordial essence, continue to search answers with this reasoning, it seems good, I consider just a different primoridal essence with this space and this dark cold matter but that converges a little bit with you , the balance for the baryons seems the answer

Jason Wolfe

Hi Steve,

My idea about the wave function being a captured graviton allows me to declare that the quantum operators, particularly the momentum operator, are properties of the graviton. The expectation value of momentum is,

[math]p_x = - i \hbar \frac{\partial}{\partial x}[/math]

Furthermore, the equation for a force is,

[math]\vec F = \frac{d\vec p}{dt}[/math]

For a wave function of the form,

[math]\Psi(x,t,\omega(x)) = Ae^{i(k_x x - \omega (x)t)}[/math]

We are left with the suggestion that a frequency that changes with position, like a blueshift or redshift, could be an indication that a force exists.

Lukasz Lozanski

Time is the 4th dimension that explains wave particle duality. Once you measure an electron/photon you get rid of the 4th dimension and it becomes a particular point in time space. When past/present/future all exist at once a point particle is a wave. By observing we break continuity of time and give it a specific value. Enjoy! luksio63@gmail.com

Vesuvius Now

Some proposals have too much philosophy for physicists and too much physics for philosophers. What are you supposed to do then?

Steve Dufourny

Hi Vesuvius, we search all answers and the philosophy probably is important but unfortunally we have many limitations in knowledges ,in physics like in philosophy, we cannot affirm to possess the truth, all what we have are assumptiuons, the same for the deep unknowns in physics .We must prove afeter all our assumptions and after we can accept them like facts . It is like this that the sciences are , regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

On the nature of time, we can assume that time exists as a kind of force or thing, or we can assume that time does not exist as a kind of force or thing.

What if everyone assumes that time does exist, and it turns out that times does not exist.

Steve Dufourny

Hello Jim, this time seems a parameter inside this physicality correlated with the motions rotations, the quaternions are interesting for this. I consider it like irreversible on this entropical arrow of time , this time is aflow linear, that said when we observe with the spacetime and this GR , it is relativistic of course but it for observations. In quantum physics the equation of schrodinger is interesting considering the evolution and the hamiltonian. If we consider the philosophy, that becomes intriguing considering the infinity and eternity maybe but it is an other story to understand the beyond this physicality . It exists inside this physicality for me but not beyond this physicality. Regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

If time exists, it must be compelling something. What would happen if we could turn time off?

Would everything freeze, as portrayed on Star Trek.

We have motion in our timeless Universe.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

Every one of us is affected by the rotational motion of the Earth. The Earth`s rotational motion`s surface speed at the Equator is about 1,000 miles per hour. How we could freeze that in time, I don`t know, but if the rotational motion stopped, everything down to bedrock would be swept away.

We use the Earth`s rotational motion as our measurement baseline for measuring time.

We use motion to measure time. Motion exists, time does not.

Steve Dufourny

Hi Jim, I am understanding your philosophical interpretation of this time. The motions rotations for me are correlated with this time like a duration of evolution and a kind of irreversibility. This time seems an essential piece of puzzle to have our reality and its topologies, geometries, matters, fields .... Now of course we can go deeper in the philosophy, if we have a kind of eternity and infinity beyond this physicality without time, space, matters, dimensions, so it is a pure energy that I consider like an infinite eternal consciousness. If this thing that we cannot define codes, transforms this energy , so it needs parameters precise to imply this universe and its complexity of interactions of exchanges, we have informations stable , with a time life and an evolution of complexification. I have searched answers to all this, why we exist, we have this space time and the consciousness ? maybe this thing simply was alone and create a project of evolution , it is a little bit the meaning of my theory of spherisation, an optimisation evolution of the universal sphere or future sphere with quantum and cosmological 3D spheres. We are inside a physicality with precise equations, axioms, laws and this time is a parameter to consider inside this universe even if beyond the eternity is without time. About the portals like in star trek, I beleive that it is not possible because if we take the whorm holes for example, wich are mathematical symmetries of BHs in the general reltivity, they are hypothetical and even if they exist we d have a problem of mass equivalence considering the evolution and encodings in checking this time, for the space I don t know, in all case this GR is probably not the main piece of puzzle, that is why I consider 3 aethers , with the DM and the DE , that is why I consider 3 main finite series of 3D spheres having the dirac large number the same than our cosmological finite serie of 3D spheres oddly I have calculated . The main codes are in this space vacuum of this DE and the two others, the photons and the cold dark matter are fuels and when they merge they create our topologies, geometries, matters, fields. The symplectomorphisms and deformations preserving the spherical volumes become relevant if the codes are in this space. The Higgs so exist and the higgs fields but they are not the main cause of this mass, they are just activated due to photons encoded permiting the mechanism , but the mass is coded in this space . Like probably also codes of time and stabilities.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

The Earth`s rotational motion is the fundamental physical mechanism responsible for our confusion about the nature of time.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, I'd rather say motion happens. It doesn't exist at any instant or Now. There is motion of the drips falling from a tap, happening. The sequence of that happening (unobserved) is foundational time .The observed sequence is perceived passage of time. Those sequences are physical fact. They are not independent of the nature responsible for their being. The sequences can not be stopped or reversed. The sequence of the seasons and years too are foundational and perceived passage of time. By this post I'm hoping to differentiate time, the sequence, from motion, the happening.

Georgina Woodward

I have referred to perceived passage of time as emergent time, elsewhere.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

We do not perceive time passing, we perceive duration elapsing.

Perceived or unobserved.

Georgina Woodward

奥献

Georgina Woodward

It's interesting to consider what is enduring and what elapsing. It could be I see a fly zig zagging across the room. The fly form is enduring. Its position is elapsing with each new position. The enduring and elapsing is happening in sequence. It is not disappearing and reappearing somewhere unexpected. The fly object and background objects are a part of the configuration of the material (Object) universe. The visual products I'm generating reflect the enduring and elapsing of that configuration.

Another scenario is I just walk from one room to another and all is still and unchanging. Now it is not the external configuration altering that I perceive but a sequence of different observation products showing different viewpoints. What is elapsing is my awareness of the previous image as I'm seeing the new. Both give the sense/impression of time passing.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

I imagine there are a lot of people who have reached the conclusion that time does not exist.

I think the real question is how did this situation evolve?

The Earth`s rotational motion is the fundamental physical mechanism responsible for our confusion about the nature of time.

Steve Dufourny

Hi to both of you,

Dear Jim, could you explain us your deeper philosophy , I can understand that ypou consider maybe the infinity and the eternity but we seem to live inside a physicality where the time is a reality, the motions are correlated. The fact to tell that time does not exist is the same than telling that we don t exist in fact, that is why I d like that you develop a little bit why you consider this, because of course we have invented the clocks with the rotating earth, but even without us , the earth turns and a kind of time exist , the evolution seems the key , regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

If we found the magic switch and turned time off, we would look around, and not be able to discern any difference in the world.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, human bodies are part of the material universe. If "frozen" so too would be everybody. So there could be no looking around. Also there could be no vision or thought, which require physical and biochemical processes. So no observation products would be produced. So there would be no perception of them. Rather than being trapped in an unchanging present, no present experience would be generated. The material configuration would be unchanging, but unobserved.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

Excuse me for being unclear. Things would not freeze if you turned time off.

Hi Steve,

Time indeed, seems like reality to us, to every fiber of our being. We travel at a rotational surface speed of 1,000 miles per hour at the Equator. Every thing around us is in constant change.

We evolved on a swiftly rotating planet. We base our clocks on this motion, but motion does not create time.

What we consciously experience is simply duration elapsing.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, I think everything would freeze, but not as we are familiar. If The heat of a substance is due to the motion of its constituent atoms, without that motion there is no heat. If the switch works instantaneously there would not be time to, for example, crystalize water to ice. It would be frozen water.

Steve Dufourny

Hi Jim, Yes I can understand you but like told Georgina, we need to have this for the quantum mechanics and others , we could not observe because we have no motion, and if no motion, so no time, if we have no motion, no time, so we have no complexity of interactions, so the rotations motions seem essential for this time.

Best Regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina and Steve,

Please excuse me for not being clear.

I did not say, if we found the magic switch and turned motion off, we would look around, and not be able to discern any difference in the world.

I have said on FQXi on many occasions, going back to FQXi`s essay contest on the nature of time in 2008, we have motion in our timeless universe.

Georgina Woodward

Thank you Jim. now I understand your earlier post. The idea of time itself is superfluous. However it is tied to change and therefore also motion, whether of material objects or perceived via the senses. (I had thought that was the point you were making when you talked about the Earth's rotation.) If there is motion there is a before and after configuration of existent or of seen things. Which can be called different times'. Understood this way, the happening of the sequence of times can not be turned off without also turning off all change, which includes motion.

Alaya Kouki

The application of the fourth steps to verify a theory is necessary to get a consistent theory. Those steps are as the following:

1st step: the respect of the principle of least action: this principle is general and for every physical system its action should be minimum.

2nd step: the respect of the principle of locality: this principle signifies that a physical phenomenon which happen in a region of space & time affect directly only its nearest environment.

3rd step: the respect of the principle of relativity: the equation of motion should be invariant in inertial referential.

4th step: the respect of gauge invariance: when there is a symmetry, there is something which is conserved. A symmetry is a change in the system parameters which doesn't affect the equation of motion.

By applying those steps for a Newton more generalised equation of motion which is the second derivative by time of the product of the inertia and the position of a system, we had concluded that:

1-The field of gravitation and the electromagnetic field can be unified in one field and treated as it is in microscopic scale or great scale;

2-Vacuum had a density non equal to zero and a current equal to zero;

3-The notion of Dark energy & Dark matter are attributed to the action of vacuum in different scales;

4-It is very easy to get the second law of Newton (gravitation law) and the law of Coulomb for electrostatics.

5-There is an electric charge which is an universal constant;

6-The vacuum had a mechanical impedance which is an universal constant;

7-The second pair of Maxwell equations remains inhomogeneous and it call infinitely for new theories to determine new universal constants, to do new experiences & to rise new technologies. Science will never have an end.

The same conclusions can be obtained by doing meshing of space-time as combining the gravitational constant, the speed of light and the Planck constant to get an absolute system of unities called Planck system. Since we had doing this meshing, extension in space-time signify that there is energy: vacuum in its conventional definition doesn't exist. Vacuum becomes like a fluid with a density not equal to zero and a current of this fluid equal to zero. This fluid is like a ''foam'' of space-time which act on the motion of corpuscles and waves. For corpuscles the action of vacuum is in the first order a friction force due to the viscosity of the fluid and its action on waves is absorption so there is dispersion of waves. For the duality of wave-corpuscle correspond another duality of the space-time which viscosity-dispersion duality. Planck constant translate a third duality which is unity-multiplicity duality. Unity signify that a corpuscle is considered like one subject moving with a certain speed and at the same time this subject is a multitude of plane waves which are reinforced in a limit region of space-time and destruct each either away. The group speed of the packet of waves is equal to the speed of the corpuscle with some conditions of that the incertitude of the position of the corpuscle multiplied by the incertitude of its momentum is superior or equal to a certain constant not equal to zero, and the incertitude of the energy of the corpuscle multiplied by the incertitude of time to measure it, is superior or equal to the same constant not equal to zero: this is which we call the principle of incertitude.

Introducing the notion of universal friction, we can associate to a corpuscle an inertial time and an inertial length. Considering the Hamilton equations of motion, we deduce that a corpuscle is like that it is under a friction force along its time component and had a speed equal to light speed along the same time component. We consider that the corpuscle is moving in fourth dimensions which are the three dimensions of space and the dimension of time. Working in a fourth dimensions with a pseudo algebra of space-time which is Minkowski algebra we conclude that the motion of a massive corpuscle can't be in a straight line: the action of vacuum curve the motion of the corpuscle. Only light can move in a straight line. This result can be deduced also from the Restraint Relativity by applying the principle of least action: the minimum of the action is not in the motion in a straight line but in a curved line, we can't deny the action of vacuum.

By determining the motion of a charged corpuscle in an electromagnetic field we had do similitude with the motion of non-charged corpuscle by doing equivalence between the position of the corpuscle and the vector-potential of an electromagnetic field introducing conversions factors. The result is that we can apply the principle of least action on a non-charged corpuscle moving in a viscous medium: the action of the corpuscle is determined by going back with equations of the determining action of a charged corpuscle. The equation of motion of a non-charged corpuscle by using forces and accelerations is valid only locally. Many conclusions had been obtained from this equivalence between the position of corpuscle and the vector-potential:

1-We deduce the second law of gravitation of Newton;

2-We deduce the law of Coulomb for electrostatic interaction

3-We explain what does it mean Dark energy and Dark matter: it is only a problem of scale invariance gauge.

4-We define new system of unities which is the transition between microscopic scale and great scale: there is many unities defined as Maxwell-thing (Maxwell charge, Maxwell mass, Maxwell force...etc.).

5-We show that those considerations can be obtained by putting the Newton equation of motion in a more generalised form where the inertia of the corpuscle is a function of time: this equation is equal the twice derivative by time of the inertia multiplied by the position of the corpuscle.

6-The same conclusions can be obtained referring to quantum mechanics (Klein-Gordon equation where the D'alembertian of the wave function is not equal to zero so necessary there is a dispersion of the packet of waves. A medium which is dispersive for waves correspond for corpuscles to a viscous medium: the coefficient of friction due to viscosity is declared a new universal constant. It translate the mechanical impedance of vacuum. Also the harmonic oscillator, its fundamental energy is not equal to zero so vacuum is full with energy and so it is viscous).

Determining the exchanged energy of the corpuscle with vacuum, which is a multiple integer of a certain amount, we can unify all natural interactions included gravity. Gravity is a limit interaction where there is no exchange of energy. Also Coulomb interaction can be considered as an interaction corresponding to an exchange of a photon without spin.

I am convenient that such ideas will found some issues in the scientific community.

Steve Dufourny

Hello, this vacuum space for me in my theory of spherisation is the main codes of this Dark energy , that permits also to explain the evolution, I consider the dark cold matter and the photons like fuels, I have considered so 3 main finite series of 3D spheres , the same number than our cosmological finite serie of 3D spheres, I have calculated it is the dirac large number. So when these quantum series merge they create the geometries, topologies, matters, fields electromagnetic and gravitational, this vacuum space is the main piece of puzzle for me but the relativity is just for the luminiferous aether of these photons , so we have a deeper logic, it is like this that I have reaxhed this quantum gravitation in encoding the cold dark matter in nuclei , that explains also the anti particles. I have so 3 aethers and I have considered 3 E8 in replacing the points or strings by these series finite of 3D coded spheres. The sympmectomorphisms are essential because they preserve the volumes of these spheres for the deformations, My equation intuitive considering all this is this one , E=m(c^2+Xl^2)+Y with X a parameter correlated with the cold of this DM and l their linear velocity and Y is a parameter correlated with the DE , the evolution also of the universal sphere is considered. The vacvuum space of this DE so is energetical , that implies due to fact that we have specific series of 3D spheres a superfluid for the real spacetime more than this GR in a simplistic vue. I liked your general idea about the vacuum , it seems to be the secret for the main codes and this evolution, it is the meaning of my theory of spherisation this evolution optimisation of our universal sphere, the DE and DM disponible permits to predict the future of the universe , acceleration deccceleartion towards the maximum spherical volume and after acceleration decceleration conytaction towards the minimum balanced evolutive spherical volume. Regards

Vesuvius Now

huh?

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