The Nature of Time

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

The Earth`s rotational motion is the fundamental physical mechanism responsible for our confusion about the nature of time.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, I'd rather say motion happens. It doesn't exist at any instant or Now. There is motion of the drips falling from a tap, happening. The sequence of that happening (unobserved) is foundational time .The observed sequence is perceived passage of time. Those sequences are physical fact. They are not independent of the nature responsible for their being. The sequences can not be stopped or reversed. The sequence of the seasons and years too are foundational and perceived passage of time. By this post I'm hoping to differentiate time, the sequence, from motion, the happening.

Georgina Woodward

I have referred to perceived passage of time as emergent time, elsewhere.

Steve Dufourny

Hello, this vacuum space for me in my theory of spherisation is the main codes of this Dark energy , that permits also to explain the evolution, I consider the dark cold matter and the photons like fuels, I have considered so 3 main finite series of 3D spheres , the same number than our cosmological finite serie of 3D spheres, I have calculated it is the dirac large number. So when these quantum series merge they create the geometries, topologies, matters, fields electromagnetic and gravitational, this vacuum space is the main piece of puzzle for me but the relativity is just for the luminiferous aether of these photons , so we have a deeper logic, it is like this that I have reaxhed this quantum gravitation in encoding the cold dark matter in nuclei , that explains also the anti particles. I have so 3 aethers and I have considered 3 E8 in replacing the points or strings by these series finite of 3D coded spheres. The sympmectomorphisms are essential because they preserve the volumes of these spheres for the deformations, My equation intuitive considering all this is this one , E=m(c^2+Xl^2)+Y with X a parameter correlated with the cold of this DM and l their linear velocity and Y is a parameter correlated with the DE , the evolution also of the universal sphere is considered. The vacvuum space of this DE so is energetical , that implies due to fact that we have specific series of 3D spheres a superfluid for the real spacetime more than this GR in a simplistic vue. I liked your general idea about the vacuum , it seems to be the secret for the main codes and this evolution, it is the meaning of my theory of spherisation this evolution optimisation of our universal sphere, the DE and DM disponible permits to predict the future of the universe , acceleration deccceleartion towards the maximum spherical volume and after acceleration decceleration conytaction towards the minimum balanced evolutive spherical volume. Regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

We do not perceive time passing, we perceive duration elapsing.

Perceived or unobserved.

Georgina Woodward

奥献

Georgina Woodward

It's interesting to consider what is enduring and what elapsing. It could be I see a fly zig zagging across the room. The fly form is enduring. Its position is elapsing with each new position. The enduring and elapsing is happening in sequence. It is not disappearing and reappearing somewhere unexpected. The fly object and background objects are a part of the configuration of the material (Object) universe. The visual products I'm generating reflect the enduring and elapsing of that configuration.

Another scenario is I just walk from one room to another and all is still and unchanging. Now it is not the external configuration altering that I perceive but a sequence of different observation products showing different viewpoints. What is elapsing is my awareness of the previous image as I'm seeing the new. Both give the sense/impression of time passing.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

I imagine there are a lot of people who have reached the conclusion that time does not exist.

I think the real question is how did this situation evolve?

The Earth`s rotational motion is the fundamental physical mechanism responsible for our confusion about the nature of time.

Steve Dufourny

Hi to both of you,

Dear Jim, could you explain us your deeper philosophy , I can understand that ypou consider maybe the infinity and the eternity but we seem to live inside a physicality where the time is a reality, the motions are correlated. The fact to tell that time does not exist is the same than telling that we don t exist in fact, that is why I d like that you develop a little bit why you consider this, because of course we have invented the clocks with the rotating earth, but even without us , the earth turns and a kind of time exist , the evolution seems the key , regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Steve,

If we found the magic switch and turned time off, we would look around, and not be able to discern any difference in the world.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, human bodies are part of the material universe. If "frozen" so too would be everybody. So there could be no looking around. Also there could be no vision or thought, which require physical and biochemical processes. So no observation products would be produced. So there would be no perception of them. Rather than being trapped in an unchanging present, no present experience would be generated. The material configuration would be unchanging, but unobserved.

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina,

Excuse me for being unclear. Things would not freeze if you turned time off.

Hi Steve,

Time indeed, seems like reality to us, to every fiber of our being. We travel at a rotational surface speed of 1,000 miles per hour at the Equator. Every thing around us is in constant change.

We evolved on a swiftly rotating planet. We base our clocks on this motion, but motion does not create time.

What we consciously experience is simply duration elapsing.

Georgina Woodward

Jim, I think everything would freeze, but not as we are familiar. If The heat of a substance is due to the motion of its constituent atoms, without that motion there is no heat. If the switch works instantaneously there would not be time to, for example, crystalize water to ice. It would be frozen water.

Steve Dufourny

Hi Jim, Yes I can understand you but like told Georgina, we need to have this for the quantum mechanics and others , we could not observe because we have no motion, and if no motion, so no time, if we have no motion, no time, so we have no complexity of interactions, so the rotations motions seem essential for this time.

Best Regards

Jim Snowdon

Hi Georgina and Steve,

Please excuse me for not being clear.

I did not say, if we found the magic switch and turned motion off, we would look around, and not be able to discern any difference in the world.

I have said on FQXi on many occasions, going back to FQXi`s essay contest on the nature of time in 2008, we have motion in our timeless universe.

Georgina Woodward

Thank you Jim. now I understand your earlier post. The idea of time itself is superfluous. However it is tied to change and therefore also motion, whether of material objects or perceived via the senses. (I had thought that was the point you were making when you talked about the Earth's rotation.) If there is motion there is a before and after configuration of existent or of seen things. Which can be called different times'. Understood this way, the happening of the sequence of times can not be turned off without also turning off all change, which includes motion.

Vesuvius Now

huh?

Vesuvius Now

Personally, I would like to see us philosophers of time think more about McTaggart's A-series versus his B-series. Georgina Woodward has thought about it (Jul. 25, 2020), (thankfully--maybe I'm not crazy after all!).

The issue is the *changing* future-present-past series versus the *unchanging* earlier-later series. These are TWO series that characterize ONE dimension of time. FQXi will eventually have an essay contest about it (that is, *later* than now) but we don't have to wait for that.

I have a paper that is submitted YET AGAIN--this time in its most recent form of course--we'll have to wait and see.

What are people's thoughts about the series? What are your thoughts about how to reconcile the two series with the well-confirmed relativity-of-simultaneity?

Best

Georgina Woodward

Hi, earlier/later pertain to the history of the material sequence of configurations of the uni-temporal (same time everywhere universe. Only the youngest configuration exists.) Past, present and future are related to the products of observation. There are potential sensory stimuli within the materially existing universe. These may be received by an observer and from them a present product formed. Those products can then be used to form memory and records of what has been. Relics from former Nows exist within uni-temporal Now, the current configuration of the material universe. Non simultaneity of same event seen by different observers is due to their different locations at the same time (Now). There can be different travel time of the sensory stimuli to reach the observers, from the source material event. The event is seen when the present product is formed.

Vesuvius Now

Dinner tonight might be 5 hours *later than* lunch today. But dinner is in my future, then it is in my present, and then it is in my past. However, it remains 5 hours later than lunch the whole time.

Therefore the earlier-to-later series *cannot* be the same series as future-present-past.

Vesuvius Now

Do y'all agree?

Georgina Woodward

Yes I Agree they are different> I have an issue with saying dinner is in the future. I don't think there is a material future. he future dinner is only a possibility. You may have the ingredients and means to prepare them. However circumstances may require dinner to be postponed or cancelled. When dinner is in your present you are obtaining sensory in formation about it and experiencing the products generated by your brain from that sensory input. The material meal is at Unitemporal Now, the most recent configuration of existence. Dinner is not then in a material past but there exist neural pathways giving memory of it. There may be a written record if written about in your journal. Or photographs taken at the dinner. All of these memories and records exist at Unitemporal now.

« Previous Page Next Page »