The Present State of Physics, Mathematics, and Science

Georgina,

Of the three questions and outcomes, I cannot find one that is testable by scientific method and verifiable by correspondence with a theory that makes a closed logical judgement. I'm only interested in truths that can be shown correspondent to a mathematical model. Not to disparage your research, however--by 3-valued logic, there is true, false and unproven. Many unprovable truths have been converted to scientific theories.

Tom, thank you for thinking about it. I have given the apparatus set up that could be used. I don't know which outcome will be found, It is more a preliminary fact finding mission than proof of a theory. Each question could be written as if, then. If a photon is divisible into all unmeasurable parts then no detection will be obtained; and so on for all three questions and possible outcomes. That's all it is at present. Asking what happens in this specific circumstance.

As for your question. Ii think the crushed source will prevent the mirrors from being brought completely touching together. So the trapped photons will be undergoing repeated phase changes. Whereas the free photons that have passed through stop changing phase when free of the mirrors. I don't know if trapped photons still qualify as photons.

Re. yours. What about gradual dissipation of energy by the material of the mirrors, with very many reflections; especially by the metalic backing? Loss of photons of energy not loss of energy content of individual photons.

Georgi and Tom,

Thinking of Rob McEachern's argument that what we measure is simply that which we seek, the question of 'what is a photon' is a matter of the experimenter's choice. While I can go along with there being non-detected properties, and a divisible quantum or specifically, Quanta, at some point there is a need to mathematically qualify what it is that we seek.

In my early modeling, I simply followed a naive mathematical rationale which partitioned the individual Planck value Quanta between a mass:energy particle and the impetus which accelerated it to a peak periodic velocity at mid-point of any wavelength, and let the chips fall where they would. That quickly led to a seeming contradictory condition wherein the particle portion exceeded the Planck value at twice the wavelength of the arbitrary benchmark wavelength. In the same wise of a 'fact finding' exercise, I simply contented myself with an intuitive reasoning that the physical mass equivalence mattered less then the rate of momentum transfer by the particle form with any detection system. Crude and naive to be sure. But it, in the end analysis panned out as a parametric model leading to fully relativistic mathematical rationale which can account for the quantity of energy in a rest mass particulate field, distributed in a continuous gradient of density defining a finite volume. This satisfies Wheeler's zero boundary condition, where conventional attempts employing integrating over partial differentials always leads to a feedback loop at the minimum density boundary limit.

So I'm not the one whom should argue with how anyone else attempts to analysis "what is a photon?".

Best, as always. I've been dealing with some personal issues, so excuse me if I don't chime in very often :-) jrc

Edit to last post:

I should have stated it as 'a generally relativistic mathematical rationale' rather than 'fully' in that while the rationale to be consistent with the zero boundary condition requires the time parameter to be generally covariant with dilation. Rather than velocity of the energy field decelerating from light velocity to nil across the condensate, the rate of passage of time slows from light speed equivalence to nil. Hence at the light velocity limit of an empirically derived universal minimum energy density necessary to maintain simple connectivity translatory of inertia, no physical motion of the enrgy at that boundary is either necessary or possible.

ON A PERSONAL NOTE: I have belatedly joined Facebook to facilitate downsizing a bunch of stuff collected over my adult life through the Marketplace feature and 'Groups'. Pretty handy, but FB's conglomerated entanglement is complicated, error-prone, sluggish and a PITA. It wouldn't let me post a listing on a local buy and sell group until I tried logging in to FQXI and leaving that tab open to let FB's algorithm know I was a real account while I went through the FB posting process. It seemed to work BUT... on my next session after shutting down and tabbing up FQXI, I got a big red Alert flag saying fqxi or I might be getting hacked! I have chanced it this once by going the work around of the alert which cleared my FQXI loggin button and had to manually put in my email and password. If you don't hear from me for a while, I've been screwed! Onward through the fog! Facebook is notorious for data mining and I debated long and hard before creating an account, but its gotten to the point where you can't DO anything without being online! Like Einstein said, "It's easier to control the splitting of an atom, than to control what men do with it". :-) jrc

Georgina,

"Ii think the crushed source will prevent the mirrors from being brought completely touching together."

Why? Any number of massless particles can occupy the same space,

"So the trapped photons will be undergoing repeated phase changes. Whereas the free photons that have passed through stop changing phase when free of the mirrors."

Significance?

"I don't know if trapped photons still qualify as photons."

Do they qualify as light? What, then? Is a trapped photon still a quantum of light?

The end result should be a polarized population, the dense phase-changing positive state, and the unchanging negative state.

Tom,

I get what you argue as the end result. Providing a perfect mirror could exist, but essentially valid. jrc

Hi Tom, the source of the photons isn't just photons though. Surly its something like a laser or light bulb or heated metal. What is it if not some kind of atomic material or object?

The trapped photon can't be measured or have any effect. so it has no phenomenal reality. You will have to state it is a noumenal reality on the belief that photons can remain as trapped entities, if it is to be at all real. Only achievable because you employ an unrealistic perfect kind of mirror. It seems to me. But I don't claim understand your work.

John, Georgina,

It's a thought experiment, but even a thought experiment must be doable in principle.

To try and cut to the chase, I'll say that if the Aharonov-Bohm effect is true, my proposed experiments--soliton creation and space roar source--are valid.

Fundamental nature has revealed these numerical clues: the speed of light is 299792458, the proton/electron mass ratio is 1836.15289, and the intervals between the atomic numbers of the noble gases is 2/8/18/18/32. What is the meaning of these numbers? Why not some other quantities?

Thanks for post!

Electron Doping? by David Vognar

I think it helps to visualize physics so that it doesn't amount to equations that don't describe the "fitness" of their operations to physical reality as precisely as they could.

For instance, when we think of an electron, which seems to play the most vital part of Quantum Computing (because even the most advanced QC's try to achieve alternating states of superconductivity or single-state per macro state conditions), I think we can think of it as similar to doping sticks.

Considering a Bohmian 8 +1 + 1 + 1 + n +1... universal physical reality accessible at this point in history to human consciousness (with 4 implicate and 4 explicate dimensions of time/space/energy/matter and 1 rotating through point standing for the "0" dimension or vacuum space: Can we think of this one micro state per macro state condition as "doping" or adding through electron valences: https://aip.scitation.org/doi/abs/10.1063/1.5027198.

This doping can be Levy Flighted to create a system whereby one can expressly interchange and "control" the doping and thus the motion of 8! states through the above paper, I suspect, or similar approaches of adjusting doping at the "0" vacuum site, which allows continuous jumps from say -4 to 3 in our world, or as we tune through doping downward, 2 to -1. The motion of such doping can be used to harness large amounts of energy and also fine tune energy levels. A resonance calculation that keeps the doping pace and procedure stable would have many applications for our physical world. Levy Flighting such a crystal doping regime means being able to rotate the crystal in a pattern consistent with one's intended effects. A suitable way to do so would be to suspend the crystal in zero gravity and influence it through fields of electromagnetic and containment fields.

Examining Superposition and The Measurement Problem, via comparison of Schrödinger's Cat with The Basketball Game Thought experiments

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The Basketball Game compared to Schrödinger's cat

Basket ball going through hoop is like the cat encountering poison; The existential relationship outcome. They are obviously materially dissimilar scenarios but logically similar. The poison ends the cats life, the basket ball going through the hoop ends the game [Specified earlier]. Opening the box and noting the condition of the animal is like writing on the score card. The score- like, state outcome has come into existence upon box opening, preceded by the material condition of the animal. The basketball does not posses the score prior to being thrown'

State of the game outside of the court is unknown until score is acquired. What is the state of the game going to be found to be? Either 1 or 0 Likelihood fluctuating as ball goes back and forth. A mix of future outcome score to be found and imagined future that will not be found. This is abstract and not the material existing players (Nor players and court ensemble, or material ball and hoops.)

When a basket is scored it is detected and a signal is sent to the score board causing it to change its display from 0s indicating no baskets and game is still in play, to 1 indicating a basket has been scored and game is over. (The score is an abstract entity that can be represented and recorded in various ways, obviously different from the current activity of the existing, material team members.)

The score board sends the result to the separate press room. A journalist in the press room and collects the update on the game. At once the journalist knows if the game is over if a score of 1 is seen. If just 0s seen the game is still in play. it's not known how much play time has elapsed unless a stop clock in the press room is activated along with the air horn starting the game.

The 0 showing game still in play, is akin to a live cat outcome being acquired, 1 game over, a dead cat noticed and remembered or recorded. The outcome of seeing the score in the press room is knowing 1 or 0 with implications of that. If 0 the game is stopped at once. An air horn could be activated again with press of a button, in the press room, to signify the end of the game.

Stopping the game is akin to opening the box and rescuing the live cat. Getting the game score outcome is akin to forming a new observation product of cat on opening the box, such as a visual image, but could involve cinematography, video, movement detection. The game outcome acquired (game then stopped 'at once', by pressing the stop button, if not already over) is not the material players and/ or ball and hoop. It is a separate abstract entity. The mentally held or memorized or recorded vitality state of the cat is a separate abstract entity from the material animal.

The Basketball Game: rules, apparatus, starting the game, scoring a basket

The game involves two teams in a 'sudden death' play off. The game ends when either team scores one basket. When that will happen is not known but it will happen given sufficient time. When the game ends players are required to wait and rest, passively on the sidelines.

A basketball court is locked so no one can come in or leave. Inside the court there is a game starting device. It has a small radioactive source. When the source decays randomly it emits a particle which activates a detector. The detector sends a signal to a device activating an air horn, starting the game. [linking a quantum event to macroscopic one, instead of instigating process that will lead to a cats death it's decay leads to starting of the game and so inevitable progression towards score of 1, if the game is allowed to run its course] The game is stopped when the score is acquired from the separate press room, if not already over. Whether the game ends with a basket being scored or is stopped, players are required to wait and rest, passively on the sidelines

Scoring a basket is like release of poison killing cat. (While the state of play is unknown instead of supposed live-dead quasi real cat there would if modeled and interpreted the same way, game over and ongoing play simultaneously. There may be objection that the two teams are not a single entity like the cat. Each player could be considered.)

Different people can become aware of the recorded outcome score at different times without effecting the play that has already taken place. In the same way that watching a sports replay does not effect the earlier game or post game activity. Each person's viewpoint of the state of play (assuming they think they are getting live feed) depends on when they receive the information. There is nothing paradoxical this is just relative perspectives. This is like the time difference between Wigner and friend receiving information on the vitality state of the cat.[writing about what is Wigner's friend cut here for brevity]

The game outcome acquired, (game then stopped 'at once'), is not the material players and/ or players and court/ ball/ hoops ensemble or ball and hoop. It is a separate abstract entity.

Measurement problem, Wikipedia: "In quantum mechanics, the measurement problem is the problem of how, or whether, wave function collapse occurs."

There is no existing state prior to measurement. There is no relation with the measurement apparatus that can give a singular 'measured this way' outcome. This had been widely interpreted as meaning it is not something actual, rather than lacks a relative to a specific observer viewpoint or measurement process. The existing unseen, unmeasured object can still exist (in absolute relation to everything else existing locally). Object permanence is relevant. We do know from object permanence that things can exist without being seen or measured. Quantum physics does not allow for this, and has particles becoming real at measurement with random outcome.

Evidence of existing unseen and unmeasured; Peekaboo, Object permeance, work of Jean Piaget, Appearing and transformation illusions ,using concealed objects, such as fireee ito doves using dove pan, rabbit from 'empty' hat, Is the Moon there when nobody looks analyzed by Georgina Woodward.

In place of what there is (existing), until we have a singular description, is consideration of the likelihood of finding different outcomes when measurement takes place. These outcomes do not yet exist as they can only be formed when the measured object and measuring apparatus relation happens. So pre-measurement there is contemplation of one future outcome that will be actualized and other outcomes that are just imaginary; unless using the Many worlds theory. This is therefore not something real.

The wave function is not physically real, that is not existing physically because it is partly pertaining to the future and partly imaginary. It is not correct to think it represents the object. Its actually what will be and is imagined but won't be the outcome. The outcome should be regarded as a new abstract entity that can be 'in mind ', written on paper, memorized, recorded by a device. Having acquired that score like outcome, the wave function that was in use pre-measurement is no longer relevant. Measurement is not bringing objects into existence but new score like abstract entities are being introduced.

Quantum Mechanics, (QM), is about measurement. Prior to measurement things are not modeled as existing. QM is about measuring not about representing a world full of existing things. Can things exist without being observed or measured? This matter has been addressed by talking about object permanence, and by analysing the question 'Is the Moon there when nobody looks?'

QM: Instead of an existing thing pre-measurement there is a superposition of outcome states (post measurement states).They can not be actual because the measurement relation with the apparatus is needed to form them. Only one will be actualized in the Copenhagen interpretation. Which means only one of the pre-measurement states was the actual future state to be the rest were imaginary. Which makes the superposition a smearing of future actualization and imagination, rather than existence. Or if we go with the Many Worlds interpretation all of the superposed states will in the future be actualized, but in different universes. Using Occam's razor to evaluate the speculation it is not reasonable. There is not conservation of energy within that proposed multiverse.