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  • Quantum Physics and the End of Reality by Sabine Hossenfelder and Carlo Rovelli

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Sabine Hossenfelder , Carlo Rovelli, and Eric Weinstein debate quantum physics, consciousness and the mystery of reality. Brian Keating hosts. We imagine physics is objective. But quantum physics found the act of human observation changes the outcome of experiment. Many scientists assume this central role of the observer is limited to just quantum physics. But is this an error? As Heisenberg puts it, "what we observe is not nature in itself but nature exposed to our method of questioning." In all our studies of reality and nature then, the observer plays a role -- not just in quantum physics.Should we recognise science can never access reality independent of the observer? Should we re-define science not as uncovering objective reality, but as uncovering the functions, limitations and structures of the mind of the observer themselves? And if we cannot remove the observer, might quantum physics help us to understand the observer - as Roger Penrose suggests consciousness "reeks of something quantum mechanical."The Institute of Art and Ideas features videos and articles from cutting edge thinkers discussing the ideas that are shaping the world, from metaphysics to string theory, technology to democracy, aesthetics to genetics. Subscribe today!For debates and talks: https://iai.tv For articles: https://iai.tv/articles For courses: https://iai.tv/iai-academy/courses

The biggest stumbling block is how we model time.

As mobile organisms, this sentient interface between body and world functions as a sequence of perceptions, in order to navigate, so our concept of time is of the point of the present moving past to future. Physics codifies it as measures of duration.

The reality is change turning future to past. Tomorrow becomes yesterday, because the earth turns. Duration is the present, as the events rise and fall.

There is no literal dimension of time, because the past is consumed by the present, to inform and drive it. Causality and conservation of energy. Cause becomes effect.

Time is asymmetric, because it is a measure of action and action is inertial. The earth only turns one direction.

Different clocks can run at different rates simply because they are separate actions. Think metabolism. Nature is so diverse and so integrated, because everything doesn't march to the beat of the same drummer.

Energy is "conserved," because it manifests the present, creating time, as well as temperature, pressure, color and sound. Time is frequency, events are amplitude.

So energy, as present, goes past to future, while the patterns generated go future to past. Energy drives the wave, while the fluctuations rise and fall. No tiny strings necessary.

Consciousness also goes past to future, while the perceptions, emotions and thoughts giving it form and structure go future to past. Suggesting consciousness does function as a form of energy and thus causal, though it is the digestive, respiratory and circulatory systems processing the energy and feeding the flame, while the central nervous system sorts the information, signals from the noise. Thus our intellectual focus on the patterns, rather than the processes generating them.

Which goes to the map versus territory question of the supposed primacy of math. The function of a map, as well as math, is to extract signal from the noise. If the map tried to describe every detail of the territory, it would revert back to noise, a whiteout of too much information. Similarly math is descriptive, not explanatory. It is simply useful signals, not the source of the noise. Map, not territory.

    Hi John, maybe this time is simply correlated with the motions and is irreversible on the entropical universal alrrow of time, it is a parameter that we have invented permitting to measure the interactions, motions,changes.There is for me nothing of odd with the time, and it is correlated with an universal evolution at all scales.

    Steve, Your implicit assumption is there is such a thing as a singular universe and not just networks/ecosystems of galaxies. Otherwise it's just an averaging of rates of change. Basically like temperature.

    I did argue here for years the Big Bang Theory is terminally flawed. Especially since they use the premise of relativistic spacetime to say space itself is expanding, totally ignoring that if relativistic space were to expand, the speed of light would have to increase, in order to remain Constant. Instead they extract two metrics of space from the same light. One based on the speed and the other based on the spectrum. If the speed were the numerator, it would be a "tired light" theory, but as an "expanding space" theory, speed is still the implicit denominator, what it supposedly expands in relation to.

    Originally it was assumed they would not find any mature galaxies beyond a redshift z=7. Then it became z=10. Now the Webb has found them at z=16.7.

    In a few months, they are not going to be able to ignore the problem anymore.

    John, I believe in a deeper logic than this BB, there are many problems with this BB like the inflation or the non uniformity of galaxies, the DE and DM also more other problems,I don t believe in my model of spherisation in this BB, the CMB and other datas are not sufficient. I don t consider this GR like the primary essence also and nor the strings like you know. For this time like I explained I see it like an emergent properties due to motions, changes and this evolution even if we have these dilation in the GR and lenght contractions, it is a paradoxal effect due to rlativistic observations for me. Thanks for sharing your ideas, happy to see you again on FQXi, friendly

    Steve,

    Have to check in occasionally. Science is moving slowly, but I suspect the James Webb will cause it to adjust a lot in the next few years. We shall see. Best.

    Certainly perception is different from existence. Perception is generated via our senses, from interaction with existence, including from experimental results, and brain processing. Existence exists without perception. Correct categorization is important. consciousness is not necessary for making a measurement but the relation of the measured and apparatus is important. Our consciousness does play a part in our representation of existence. The orientation of the dimensions assigned depends on our individual relations to the sensory stimuli emitted from sources that have or had existence. The orientation of the dimensions we attribute are not intrinsic to the source objects. The space in which the objects are seen is part of the generated perception. I've been reading about dmt experiences. The generated spaces are very different. They can be more fractal like, involve folding of spaces, living moving geometry sometimes.

      Time can also be distorted on a dmt trip. This shows normal perception is giving us a particular representation of space and time. But not necessarily the only possible....The normal seen representation of objects is not the same as existence. It (the seen) is only made of partial surface representation usually, partial truth. Whereas existence is all surfaces and interior.

      The representations can be constructed using expectation as well as sensory input....Existence is not generated by the mind. It can be shaped by work with the body ( with or without tools) carrying out mental plans.

      The representations are linked to what the brain/mind considers relevant facts and memories and perhaps also emotional responses. Which gives understanding of what has been generated-i.e. perception. Existence without perception of it does not have such linkages.

      The spontaneous symmetry breakings are so important at all scales and for this we need causes and informations, that is why my intuitive equation and these deeper scalar fields and a deeper logic about the main codes and informations in this vacuum become a key to understand these symmetry breakings.It is like the potential energy and the main informations permit kinetic complementarities for these symmetries breakings. That is why the chirality becomes essential about a kind of logic universal about these symetries broken. These scalar massless fields of this space vacuum of the DE possessing the main codes permit the symmetries but also these assymetries and chiralities, that is why we have all this diversity in chemistry and biology and that they evolve furthermore , our error is to consider only actual general symmetries for our quantum mechanics and it is mainly due to limitations in our observations and also mainly due to limitations in knowledges about the QM,but the broken symmetries and the chiralities are essential and these scalar fields seem the key. The Y is my intutitive equation becomes the key and is fascinating possessing the main informations, we cannot even generalise Y like a constant because it depends of whatt we analyse and consider like matter. The chirality and the broken symmetries and the main informations of these sclar fields permit to explain the diversity of the universe and the evolution.

        All this is very important about the lagrangians and my equation where this space vaccuum of the DE permits these broken symmetries. It is mainly due to these main informations of these nscalar masslees fields antigravitational. This Y in my equation is a new theory about the informations and seems the key of broken symmetries and the aim is to understand these perturbative parameters breaking these symmetries of common lagrangians.

        For example the Higgs mechanism is mainly about these broken symmetries and mai nly due to these massless fields of this DE and the massive added scalar fields of the DM permitting this mass. It is not about the mass energy equivalence of einstein with specific fields of the vacuum of this GR , it is totally different.

        There are many different broen symmetries and that can be ranked with my intuitive equation about the lagra ngians and the referentials. That implies even interesting roads about the vaccuums and their interpretations.

        The actual known forces of the standard model have all the potential of symmetries broken and the higgs mechanism is relevant for this with the reasoning that I explained. Now for the nuclear forces , the quarks, gluons, the same kind of mechanism than for the higgs mechanism for the W and Z bosons can be considered in considering these scalar fields of the DE and DM, that implies that the DM is encoded in the scalar massless fields antigravitationa permitting these broken symmetries and explain the missing mass .The vacuum state actually considered can add this vacuum of the DE for better understanding like a bridge of energy, like a bridge between the electromagnetism, the relativity, thye gravitation and the anti gravitation. It is there that the new theory of informations antigravitational and primary become relevant possessing the main codes for these broken main general symmetries...

        it is this the secret , the broken symmetries and chiralities for the emergent lifes .....the main interest is to understand why these chiralities and stabel homochiralities

        the DNA or the amino acids are not chiral, they are homochirals and it is this also the basis of the life . I have studied the works of Oparine and Pasteur and the origin of amino acids is important, the big questions is why this homochirality , there are experiments to do with the light, the electromagnetism and BEC for these scalar fields not known. They are going to chaqnge the molecules, the light does not seem to be the only one parameter changing the left and right systems. That becomes relevant about the origin of the life, is it terrestrial or extraterrestrial if it is created in the space with the electromagnetism more these scalar massless and massive fields, the big questions is there.

        Why homochiralities, chiralities , broken symmetries. It is mainly the origin of the life and the emergent homochiralities which become intriguing and fascinating. We arrive about the storage of informations and the real question is what are the informations permitting this, is it only this light and electromagnetism or deeper informations, I believe that the light alone and this GR cannot answer and that is why we need these deeper informations and scalar massless fields of the DE and massive scalar fields of the DE. It is there that the symmetries breakings are relevant for the homochiralities. The biotic or abiotic theories need to add deeper parameters and even our actual standard model cannot answer and even the thermodynamics, because these main informations are the cause and they are not known.

        We arrive at an important point considering the evolution and the adaptation , my theory is mainly about the evolution and changes, the theory of spherisation it is this, the evolution optimisation of this universe with 3D spheres mainly like foundamental objects. So the big question is why these adaptations and homochiralities , it is not a darwinistic competition only which implies this, but deeper parameters of evolution, there are like choices made for the chiralities and it is the secret to find.It is not like a chance , but about informations stored.

        Now if we consider the atoms and the standard model and the dirac particles having an antiparticle, it becomes relevant about the chiralities and the changes.We arrive at the same reasoning fo the helicity, the spin and chirality of particles.Some bosons are massless like the photons or the gluons, they are supposed massless but a kind of mechanism like the higgs can be considered due to the massless scalar fields of the DE and the massive scalar fields of the CDM , that is why the mass appears for the gluons like the higgs mechanism but with a d ifferent mechanism and fields. An other question that we can search is the fact that the massless photons maybe is an error and so we arrive at new philosophical reasonings. That is why the helicity and chirality of bosons and fermions can be better understood and mainly if these scalar deeper fields are added. See that in my equation an important point is that Y is antigravitational and not constant , permitting this evolution because possessing the main informations. These scalar massless fields are the main chief orchestra and permit the diversity of atoms and the specific spin, helicities, chiralities , mass of particles in function of codes and informations in this field. That is why these chiral symmetries breakings become relevant in ranking all this puzzle with the spherical topological geometrical algebras that I created with these spherical volumes and specific series considering the 3 main systems free cosmologically.It is really a question of broken symmetries due to main unknown informations.

        End of naivety about measurement, rather. The measurement process imposes a relative perspective, and quantifies or qualitatively determines something about the object or actualization relative to something else. I.e. there is an [object - actualization]/[ observer or apparatus] relationship, providing context. In this way, a state or value is isolated by measurement and attributed as a property of the measured entity. Though the determined value, the quantified measurement or determined singular qualitative state attributed to the variable is really offspring of the contextual relationship. This is not confined to quantum physics. Measurables are sample-able variables, parameters and constants used to gain some cognition of the external world. Those sampled measurables provide the 'properties' that allow construction of models and ideas about how that World/ universe functions. Map-variables, not terrain.

          The Terrain that is the reality that exists outside of our minds and representations, is more than a singular 'Map' representations encapsulates. There are many ways the Terrain can be interacted with and represented. One deterministic Map doesn't show any of the other possibilities that have not been put into the 'Map'. Preparation -The multiplicity of value or states ceases to apply. Not thinking about Wild type, complete objects but a limited set of observables or measurables that could be selected for measurement. Method A relationship is formed with the object giving access to a facet of the chosen observable. Result Finally the result is obtained and the single fixed state or value is promoted to representation of the property of the object or phenomenon considered. Thought-There is a connection to the Many worlds idea. Potential for many Maps at the source, not many Terrains on product side.

          "... several conceptions of the ideal of objectivity are either questionable or unattainable. The prospects for a science providing a non-perspectival "view from nowhere" or for proceeding in a way uninformed by human goals and values are fairly slim, for example."] "Scientific Objectivity", The Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy (Winter 2017 Edition), Edward N. Zalta (ed.)

          The brand of objectivity that I prefer comes from the correspondence theory of truth that Popper rehabilitated for science. As with any correspondence theory, it is based on a metaphysically real philosophy--i.e. it holds there is a reality external to the observer -- which is diametrically opposed to the views of these physicists (and is, I perceive, the majority view of the FQXi membership)

          A lot of the debate on what it (knowledge, related to facts) is and isn't could be eliminated by agreeing on an extra term; 'misinformed knowledge'; Referring to what seems to be knowledge of an external truth but is not what it seems to be.

          A belief can be justified without the subject of that belief being the truth or the whole truth. It is also possible to see that JTB (Justified True belief) can change to JMB (Justified Misinformed belief) when additional information is available. i.e. what was true for the known data set is not true for the expanded data set. Example: All swans are white -until the first black swan is found. The opposite process may also occur; supposed (according to available data and expert opinion) JMB can change to JTB when more facts are available later. Example: a high fat diet can be healthy for a human being.

          hey to you,.....

          ""End of naivety about measurement,""

          Information and measure

          information : it is a quantum state change is due the modification of one degree of freedom from the considered quantum system.

          During a measure, To be informed by the system, the measurer needs information, taking information out the system during the measurement process but with the measure, the new system to considers is the global system, there was only a transfer of information between two parts of the global system; similar to the known concept of entanglement