Does Objective Reality Exist? Great Mysteries of Physics Part 4 -- FQxI Podcast

Georgina Woodward
I don't care what your intention is, I only see the actual words you have written, where you repeatedly approvingly linked to videos and papers that cast doubt on the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists, and where on two separate occasions, you cast doubt on the very people who are honestly trying to face up to the very serious issues raised by the climate scientists, by saying that these people are:

• "fearmongering" and
• are "fearmongering" because they have hidden agendas : “I do not think it unreasonacle [sic] conjecture that scientists try to promotre [sic] their work to get funding, that news organizations sensationalize to sell more news or advertizing [sic], that frightened people try to get action to publisize [sic] their concerns, that politicians may be motivated by using the issue to gain votes.”

From Stanford encyclopedia ofd philosiophy Soics
Quotes "In response to the concern posted on this thread about moral responsibility for violent acts, Chrysippus begins by distinguishing different types of causes. Although nothing happens without an antecedent cause, he claims, not all antecedent causes are sufficient for bringing about their effect (Plutarch, ....):"
An illustration of different responses to the same impetus-
["Chrysippus] resorts to his cylinder and cone: these cannot begin to move without a push; but once that has happened, he holds that it is thereafter through their own nature that the cylinder rolls and the cone spins."
Nature and nurture affect how people behave. Nature , genetics is not a personal choice nor is nurture during early chilhood.Adults though may be ina position to influence nurture by controlling , choosing or avoiding certain exposures.

Definitions by Oxford languages
to reason

2. think, understand, and form judgements logically.
   "humans do not reason entirely from facts"
   rationality
3. the quality of being based on or in accordance with reason or logic.
   "like any phobia, rationality plays only a small role"
   To belive with absolute faith in a given ideology , not permitting any dicussion, questioning or examination of it ,seems the antitheses of reason and rationality.

Carbon Dioxide Fertilization Greening Earth, Study Finds, APR 26, 2016, Karl B. Hille
https://www.nasa.gov/technology/carbon-dioxide-fertilization-greening-earth-study-finds/

NOAA Satellite Data Used in Study Finding Significant Greening in Earth's Vegetative Areas, April 26, 2016, https://www.nesdis.noaa.gov/news/noaa-satellite-data-used-study-finding-significant-greening-earths-vegetative-areas

Here are the two articles given at the end of that writing
https://www.eurekalert.org/news-releases/876845
and,
Zaichun Zhu, Shilong Piao, Ranga B. Myneni, Mengtian Huang, Zhenzhong Zeng, Josep G. Canadell, Philippe Ciais, Stephen Sitch, Pierre Friedlingstein, Almut Arneth, Chunxiang Cao, Lei Cheng, Etsushi Kato, Charles Koven, Yue Li, Xu Lian, Yongwen Liu, Ronggao Liu, Jiafu Mao, Yaozhong Pan, Shushi Peng, Josep Peñuelas, Benjamin Poulter, Thomas A. M. Pugh, Benjamin D. Stocker, Nicolas Viovy, Xuhui Wang, Yingping Wang, Zhiqiang Xiao, Hui Yang, Sönke Zaehle & Ning Zeng , Greening of the Earth and its drivers. Nature Clim Change 6, 791–795 (2016). https://doi.org/10.1038/nclimate3004.
Abstract, https://www.nature.com/articles/nclimate3004

'Ocean Health – Is there an “Acidification” problem'?
https://co2coalition.org/publications/ocean-health-is-there-an-acidification-problem/
The white paper can be downloaded from tthe end of his article, that writes about it.

    A single relative view generated from uncorrupted data, is true, as in a faithful likeness, within ts context ie. seen this way. Other views **are not,** _because of that_, **untrue or incorrect,** they must be seen in there own different ‘seen this way’ context. Rather than right and wrong _they are parts of the image of a greater objective reality_, This is not permissive, I.e. saying there is no right and wrong. It is not either saying ‘anything goes’. There can still be individual views that are not faithful likenesses of the objective reality – maybe because of malfunction of device or organism, during their production, lack of fidelity may be because of interference or other particular environmental conditions, there can be intentional fakes and lies that appear to be likenesses of objective reality but are not. 

Many relative views amalgamated, as each is true in it’s own context, doesn’t give a singular objective view but blurs the individual views where they disagree not being clearly this or that. So is an incorrect approach. More information in this case does not increase the fidelity of the semblance. In other words does not provide a clearer picture than one clear relative view from a particular viewpoint. Many individual views are better than the amalgamation. This or this or this or this etc. is correct. This and this and this and this is incorrect. Stitching images together to give a coherent singular output is okay but overlapping isn’t. Think of a hospital 3d scan output or panorama photographic picture.
To get an appreciation of the objective reality, viewpoint must change, whether by the observer moving, like the blind men walking around and feeling the different parts of the elephant. Or the object source must be moved, like tuning a sea shell in one’s hand to view all of it. Either way alters the relation of the observer with the sensory data emitted by the material source object, so that it is experienced or measured to be different. Either by; change to the data being received from the environment from a relatively stationary source. Or change to the data and distribution put into the environment by moving the source.

Georgina Woodward
I don't know what happened when I last posted. i can't correct it it seems. I meant to say
'
A single relative view is true, as in a faithful likeness, within ts context ie. seen this way. Other views are not, because of that, untrue or incorrect, they must be seen in there own different ‘seen this way’ context. Rather than right and wrong they are parts of the image of a greater objective reality, This is not permissive, I.e. saying there is no right and wrong. It is not either saying ‘anything goes’. There can still be individual views that are not faithful likenesses of the objective reality – maybe because of malfunction of device or organism, during their production, lack of fidelity may be because of interference or other particular environmental conditions, there can be intentional fakes and lies that appear to be likenesses of objective reality but are not.'
The text then contiues as posted in the main body of the previous post

Lorraine Ford
Whether there actually is corresponence with objective reality isn't a matter of consensus.
I have mentioned the unpredictability of chaotic systems, correlation vs causality, and absolute rather than relative truth-the whole elephant ; or drived from it ,the big picture including things discovered from ice core data, tree ring data and fossil leaf composition and so on.
This isn't saying scientists are acting foolishly, incompetantly, dishonestly. They may genuinly feel they are doing the best they can for humanity and if causing fear, it is an impetus for mitgating action, not meant badly. The media too may feel they are doing good for humanity by raising fear to spur action. Activists may feel they are doing their best to make the situation better for humanity. Politicians too may feel they are doing their best, through their words and policies. They might see getting re-elected as an imperative to continue their good work. I really don't think its good to paint people as baddies when their motives are unknown. i'd rather let them have benefit of the doubt and assume well of them. "Fearmonger' is meant in the sense of one who spreads fearful or alarming 'news'. Scaring people isn't harmless. Chronic fear/stress can cause chronic physical ill health and mental illness such as depression. It can supress the imune system and make people more vulnerable to accute illness. This has a cost to individuals and families as well as a cost to countries in providing health care and loss of productivity.

When saying viewpoint can't be added, to have a clear picture/avoid blurring, I mean they can't be superimposed. However kept as seperate viewpoints they may be joined, where viewpoint changes, as appropriate, to get a larger more complete picture. The whole picture likewise can be built up by joining individual views but not with superimposed viewpoints

Physics; Max Tegmark, in mathematical universe, identifies that if you look at the essence of what physics represents there remain abstract properties and their relations after all undefined words are removed.
That is when all word ‘baggage’ that undefined would not be understood by an alien ‘A mathematical structure S (…..) is essentially a collection of abstract entities with relations (functions) between them ... )”Max Tegmark. Arxiv 2007
He gives the example of ‘tree’ which can in current times be understood as a particular arrangement of atoms. And I would add the atoms too are particular arrangements of yet smaller particles that could theoretically be itemized and related to the whole pattern that has been isolated from the rest of reality. in thought, for particular consideration. ‘Tree ‘ is useful human scale data compression. Enabling us to know roughly the pattern of the thing we are thinking and communicating about without being encumbered by the sheer volume of individual atom position data. That perhaps a super computer could handle in a human life or less time scale, giving the output ‘tree’ but a human alone could not.
Is this representing the universe as it is or has a vital ingredient, Object reality aka, existence, aka objective (observation independent) reality, been lost in translation.
We should not reduce the pattern of existence; consisting of distribution of forms and an accumulation of substance, to mere attributes.
What is it for something to exist.

1. Form; An existing thing has the pattern formed by its constituents, of this rather than that, another kind of pattern, named as something different.
2. Substance; To exist a thing must be different from the base substance, like base of a soup, To exist as something, thought of this way, is not the difference between some particular accumulation of substance and absence of substance but being different from that which is not part of the pattern of existing things itself but in the gaps.
   Merriam Webster: ‘Entity’; being, existence; especially; independent or self contained. The existence of a thing as contrasted with it's attributes.

Georgina Woodward
Your philosophical viewpoint on the world seems to involve elephants, the physicist Max Tegmark, and aliens. But the upshot seems to be that you reject the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists.

In a real world of specialists, like doctors, nurses, physicists, car mechanics, are you also philosophically questioning everything that these specialists say, or is it only climate scientists? In the real world, do you also refuse to accept the consensus opinion of other professions, or is it only climate scientists?

The only real-world issue is that you refuse to accept the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists, and you label those people who accept the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists as “fearmongers”.

Georgina Woodward '
'Pattern' is not really sufficint to convey the eaning intended here. It is like -geoeetry but not a singular viwpoint or singular .................keyboard issue -to be continued.

@"Georgina Woodward"#p1677
As I was saying......not a singular veiwpoint or from singular mesuments but the Orientation and separation in relation to other existing parts.

Georgina Woodward
Another way of interpreting the intended meaning of the use of the word 'pattern' is template. Being the precursor to each individual relative observation product or measurement. The manifestation of the products are not random, as Quantum physics would have it ('God does not play dice' , alluding to Einstein's statement) outcomes depend on the preexisting ' template'.

Georgina Woodward
In the real world, the real world of specialists like the doctors and nurses who are currently attending to you in hospital, the real world of physicists, and car mechanics, are you also philosophically questioning everything that these specialists say and do, or is it only the climate scientists you are picking on?

In the real world, the real world of specialists like doctors, nurses, physicists, and car mechanics, do you also refuse to accept the consensus opinion of other professions, or is it only climate scientists you are picking on?

The only real-world issue is that you refuse to accept the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists, and you label those people who accept the consensus opinion of the majority of climate scientists as “fearmongers”.