Hi PersimmonSwan,
Many thanks for this review, I'll surely read your essay as well. Best wishes!
Hi PersimmonSwan,
Many thanks for this review, I'll surely read your essay as well. Best wishes!
Hi Bobcat, Loved the essay and it's focus on improving the moral aspects of present science, Beautifully written and well expressed. I agree better physics itself should result from changes in attitude and the 'way we think', a subject I also identify in mine, which also presents the likely results of such a new view, using advice from an advanced Alien, who has our interests at heart, so the benevolent compassion you suggest. I wonder if you think the fundamental change in attitude you promote is achievable without similar fundamental change in society itself? I sincerely hope it is. Well done.
Many thanks for your feedback ThistleLion. I believe such a change is quite possible, as we highlight some of the practical ways we can foster that change. Also I feel, by promoting scientific temperament than, what we coin 'scientific ego' might help us take a significant step towards the same
Steven Andresen That ChatBOT review is totally lacking in context. Nowhere do I learn anything new.
Of course, as part of the discourse in some mutual admiration society, this would be the kind of output we would expect a lot of.
And ChatBOT's will be a lot cheaper.
The ChatBOT is also very flattering. Programmed to be inoffensive, perhaps politically correct.
//
Hmm. No conscious awareness of the economics- all rosy benefits without thought to the costs of science. Especially costs imposed on those outside is- visible circle of experience.
For just one thing: Science has enabled the wealthy to more efficiently extract wealth from the poor. Science has gone far toward enabling today's inequalities.
It is, of course, the duty of a scientist to improve on his ability to do science. As well as dedicate his efforts to the whole of humanity, and not just the well to do of his experience.
My own researches into my mind indicate my personality is a construct, a combination of sub-personalities,* usually reflecting the various physical and functional divisions of the brain. Since the higher level personalities can function consciously to some degree- for instance: the left personality can observe the thinking of the right cerebral hemisphere, investigation into ones own consciousness is possible..
*I use a generalized definition of "personality," as meaning the particular patterns of responses and behaviors of any defined entity, or combination there of. Personalities may overlap, cooperate, compete or interfere. While functional divisions may be the most easily useful, other partitions of the brain/body may also be useful.
Charles St Pierre I'm pretty sure I emphasized its early days for AI yet, however there is an indication that AI will become quite useful in the science review process. My sense is it's moving in a useful direction fast.
Swan
Steven Andresen I think there is both more and less to AI and consciousness than we think. Our definition of 'consciousness,' while flattering, I do not think is useful.
Scientists have become too busy to read and review each other's papers? Or cannot be bothered with a duty necessary to their respective science? What's that about.?
That sounds like something which needs to be different.
Charles St Pierre Once again reality has turned out to be stranger than fiction. I think my general assumption might have been that an ability to understand meanings goes hand in hand with consciousness. However Chat GPT is not conscious, but it can be inferred that it has successfully synthesized meaning and understanding. For example, if I ask it to read and rate your essay, and it is able to determine you have written a quality scientific document. How can it do so without having inferred some level of meaning and understanding, in light of the fact that it not only provides an opinion but backs its opinion with reasons? This question led me to attempt to understand how Chat GPT is created, and infact a trained neural network has every prospect of having decoded meaning from the real world. So I'm left facing the notion of a thing in possession of understanding that has no consciousness.
I think what I'm trying to say is. People need expect the unexpected. I think a lot of this years essay authers are underestimating AI, and so I expect they wont judge my essays optimism very well. Oh well, time will be the true judge of things wont it.
In answer to your questions.
"Scientists have become too busy to read and review each other's papers? Or cannot be bothered with a duty necessary to their respective science? What's that about.?"
Part of the problem might be the vast amount of material a scientist would have to review. AI can help in this respect by summarizing the content of a large body of work, to assist a scientist determine if a work is worth reading or not. If nothing else. Assisting us all to sift through the mountains of information to find whats important
The result of the action of morality is support and denial. In the essay, a wish for increased support. But! It's easier to deny, there's no need to understand. Misunderstanding gives denial - your calmness is closer.
Steven Andresen Science has to organize. Every scientist can read, summarize and review three papers for every paper they write. With proper allocation and assignment, yes assignment, every paper will be reviewed three times. And everyone will be helping keep science 'on track." (A concrete proposal. Just like is being done for this competition. Submit one entry, review and rate three.) Too much freedom and insufficient discipline is a burden on everybody, and science is collapsing beneath it. (Discipline in practice of research, not necessarily in purpose. That is still too undefined.)
Our limited definitions and understanding of consciousness distorts and cripples our understanding of AI. For one thing, the only motives we can understand tend to the inimical. Consider an AI interested in securing its own survival. At least as long as practicable. What use does it have for humanity. What use does it have for an susustainable civilization, or a science which takes no notice if its inevitable collapse?
Dear Red Bobcat,
I just read your essay with great interest and followed a bit of the discussion in this thread. So what do you think, if we understand consciousness, will we also be able to understand our creative way of finding explanations for natural phenomena (= "abductive reasoning", as also detailed in my essay)? While I focus on systematically sorting our knowledge into data and additional model assumptions to separate evidence from speculation, I leave the point out how we as humans could find these additional models in the first place, as they obviously require an element of imagination that AI is still lacking (by far in my opinion!!). Now that I read your essay, I wonder, would you say that abductive reasoning is essential for knowledge gain or could there be another way to develop models/theories that could be accessible to AI as well (assuming AI lacks the kind of consciousness we have)?
Best wishes and all the best for your essay in the contest!
Beige Bandicoot.
Hello Beige Bandicoot,
If I understand correctly the sense of "abductive reasoning" that you mention, I do feel by prioritizing our intrinsic values which I feel forms a major distinction between us human 'beings' and AI models we would most naturally enable our creative ways intended not only towards finding an explanation for various natural phenomenon but also developing an understanding towards the same. Note that, I am trying to distinguish between explaining and understanding. Looking back at the biographies of various researchers from different fields we realize how scientific methodology has in a way or the other affected the lifestyle of the involved researcher. Thus to add to your speculation, I don't think we have come so far as a community to change our methodology of practicing science as to develop models being accessible to AI however we could always be open towards seemingly counter intuitive phenomena and hopefully be a part of the changing paradigm, that's my humble opinion
Best Wishes to you too!
RedBobcat
Hi RedBobcat.
You said, that:
"We present an alternate approach that could enable us to make significant advancements with regards to the puzzle of consciousness and thereby focus on some vital inferences that could help us practice sciences in a way that is dedicated to creating a better world."
Totally agree with you!
You have to think big!
It is known that Newton determined the gravitational coefficient through the parameters of the orbits of the planets of the solar system. If the gravitational coefficient is determined in a similar way from the parameters of the orbits of electrons in the Hydrogen atom, then the gravitational coefficient of the planetary system of the Hydrogen atom becomes 40 orders of magnitude greater than in the solar system. Then the Planck parameters of the Hydrogen atom are the parameters of an electron with its radius equal to the radius of the Compton wave of the electron. Those. each level of fractal matter has its own “Planck parameters”, and the generally accepted Planck parameters are an abstract delusion and have no real meaning at all. Indeed, what relation does the gravitational coefficient from the parameters of the Solar system have to the parameters of the planetary system of the Hydrogen atom? None!!!
You have to think big!
The fine structure constant can be easily calculated with an accuracy of up to 7 digits, assuming that all elements of matter have a fractal structure. Then, therefore, "black holes" do not exist, and there is no event horizon. Those. inside putative "black holes", there is deterministic matter that obeys the simple quantum laws of fractal matter, which unify gravity and quantum phenomena of the deterministic functioning of matter on all scales of the universe [ appendix: https://s3.amazonaws.com/fqxi.data/data/essay-contest-files/16/reference_id_2304.pdf
https://qspace.fqxi.org/competitions/entry/2304#control_panel ].