Roger Penrose: Are Consciousness & Quantum Linked? PUZZLE X Keynote Talk

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Join us for a fireside chat with the legendary physicist and Nobel Laureate, Sir Roger Penrose, as he talks about the connections between quantum mechanics and consciousness at PUZZLE X 2023. As two ever-perplexing topics converge, quantum physics and the nature of consciousness, hear from one of the great scientific minds of our times. Sir Roger is renowned for his groundbreaking work in general relativity, quantum theory, consciousness studies and more. Along with Stephen Hawking, he famously theorized that spacetime singularities exist at the heart of black holes. In this keynote, Sir Roger traces his winding journey of discoveries that ultimately led him to formulate the ‘Orch OR’ theory. He argues that consciousness arises from the strange effects of quantum mechanics within structures inside neurons. Some profoundly existential questions arise in this discussion - are non-computational processes in the brain a key ingredient for intelligence and subjective experience? Do mysterious quantum effects ‘orchestrate’ the brain’s computations to give rise to awareness?

Keywords: Roger Penrose, Consciousness, Quantum, PUZZLE X

Lorraine Ford

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The basic problem with what Roger Penrose has to say in this video is that, in both of the following cases, he is talking about a moving/ evolving system:

The Schrödinger equation represents “how a system evolves with time”; and
The collapse of the wave function is where the system “doesn't evolve according to the Schrödinger equation”.

But in fact, equations can’t ever represent a moving/ evolving system. Physicists, including Roger Penrose, ASSUME number movement but their equations actually only represent relationships between categories.

Any set of equations, even equations with delta symbols like the equations that represent the law of nature relationships that physicists have found, can’t ever represent a moving system. A moving world, like the universe we live in, can only be represented algorithmically, i.e. using the type of logical connective symbols used in computer programs, as well as the usual equations.

What logical connective symbols can represent is:

Using the symbols AND, OR and IS TRUE, logical connective symbols represent knowledge of the current numbers that apply to particular categories of information, i.e. they represent conscious knowledge of the current information situation;
Using the symbols IF… and THEN… , logical connective symbols represent non-law-of-nature action taken (i.e. assigning new numbers to particular categories if information) in response to knowledge of the current information situation.

Logical connective symbols represent the aspects of the world that are necessary if you want to have a moving system. Basically, the above-described logical connective symbols represent consciousness and free will. If you didn’t have consciousness and free will, or something very much like them, you couldn’t have a moving system.

Lorraine Ford

Lorraine Ford
Though they only process symbols, the most important thing that computers have demonstrated is that if you don’t have an AND/OR… IS TRUE aspect, and an IF…THEN… aspect, you can’t have a moving system, a moving world. In other words, if you didn’t have something very similar to a consciousness/ truth/ knowledge aspect, and a free will aspect, the world couldn’t be a moving system. A moving system requires these two aspects at a foundational level.

However, Roger Penrose believes that things move all by themselves, things collapse all by themselves (1). Penrose has seemingly never considered that an explanation is required for movement itself; why a system moves at all is the fundamental issue.

Roger Penrose (4:58): “My view is … that the collapse of the wave function is an objective physical process which happens quite independently of conscious beings, nothing to do with conscious beings if you like, except that according to my own views consciousness itself is a consequence of the collapse of the wave function, it's not that it produces the collapse of the wave function but it's a consequence of it.”

Lorraine Ford

Lorraine Ford
While the equations that physicists use to represent law of nature relationships, and the Schrödinger equation, might seem self-explanatory to physicists, the equations don’t make explicit how these relationships are supposed to work in practice. While these equations might look good on a T-shirt, the devil is in the missing detail of how to get an active moving system out of equations which, despite the delta symbols, merely represent passive relationships between categories.

The details of how a moving world might work are the details that can only be represented algorithmically, i.e. via the use of logical connective symbols. So, if you don’t have basic aspects like an AND/OR… IS TRUE aspect, and an IF…THEN… aspect, you can’t have a moving system, a moving world.

Physicists including Roger Penrose have refused to countenance the fact that a moving world requires algorithmic aspects that can only be represented via the use of logical connective symbols. Without the full tool kit, which includes logical connective symbols as well as equations, it is not possible for physicists to visualise the world correctly, and they are likely to hypothesise things like a miraculous emergence of consciousness.

Lorraine Ford

Lorraine Ford
There is only ONE way to have a moving universe, and that is to have a universe which has computer-program-like aspects, which would be represented with logical connectives, running the equations which represent the law of nature relationships.

However, unlike man-made computer programs which only have a limited number of logical connective statements to handle a limited number of inputs, in the real universe the logical connectives are necessarily created on the spot [in space and time] in order to handle the input combinations which only get more complex as an organism and the world increases in complexity.

While Roger Penrose and other physicists have views of the universe which refuse to countenance the fact that computer-program-like logical connective aspects are necessary to create a moving universe, these same computer-program-like logical connective aspects are the natural basis for higher-level consciousness and free will.

Lorraine Ford

Lorraine Ford
Underneath the seemingly complicated equations of physics, all that the equations of physics, that represent law of nature relationships, can ever say is that IF some numbers change, THEN other related numbers will be experimentally found to have also changed in proportions given by the equations.

Physicists can’t ever say why the world is moving and changing because they can’t ever pin down number change; physicists have only ever pinned down mathematical relationships between categories, IF some numbers change.

But unfortunately, physicists have mentally conflated the numbers with these mathematical relationships between categories, and they seemingly thought that with the relationships pinned down, they had therefore pinned down the numbers. But numbers and mathematical relationships between categories are not the same type of thing: numbers don’t have categories; numbers don’t have units of measurement; numbers can only be assigned to/ equated to categories.

While physicists continue to make the mistake of thinking that they have, or could, pin down the numbers, they will continue to have a distorted view of the world, including a distorted view of consciousness like Roger Penrose does, and a distorted view of free will.