FQxI's Essay Competition Asks How Quantum is Life? Plus Plant Intelligence, Phys

marcovici alexandru

the idea is not new is just a change of basis procedure in this case the digits from a liniar transitive one to a basis where there are other connections as well

this is just a play instead of vise to compress it might be something else like an accordion vise that has multiple opening and separations , the spectacular thing is tough that the above example contains lots of digits so a triangle with the total area of 127 must have the following rational sides

a=\frac{305955626559373590335}{3057139824004007791488}

b=\frac{6114227964816801562976}{2409099421727351105}

c=\frac{1869235313089915202133506180076637262337}{73649537823404391137389188146160344240}

computers are fast doing this digits hocus pocus
is there a tool in real life specialized for this task only
doing for example a basis with stretchable rods or mesh

@Lorraine Ford

if computers could do the moving they are already conscious.

to a certain extent yes , don't forget about quantum mechanics and unequal entanglement

(this could potentially link arbitrary large symbols with arbitrary small i find this ' we live in a simulation' kind of thing )

approximating some movements by least action is a pale thing

on the grand scale of things ( to quote carlin' rules to live by)
when comparing things with each other lets assume some little overlap on everything some have more developed features some not , trying to look somewhere else than the typical scientific cauzal temporal enterprise ,
means maping structures potentially by some random rules, those mapings do not contradict the causal business they are complementary

this is like a forcing probably from infinite set theory ,
mental human mind is not yet equipped to deal with such computations
also sudden joining with ai should not be done , there must be also a slow long term strategy for human intelligence improvement

i spoke about category theory this is stepwise composition click compose clack , biosystems have something that goes in the thermodynamic there are slower ways of joining large arbitrary things

comprendre ?

marcovici alexandru

also sudden joining with ai should not be done

to quote stephen wolfram in a discussion with elizier yudkowski
the computer was smarter

since i started using internet 2005 i have used accessed lots of large databases for millions of websites of dynamic static data structure

there was no
planed artificial forced natural evolution (multigenerational eugenics) for me to have those capabilities bio integrated mentally from birth educationally culturally

Lorraine Ford

Ulla Mattfolk
There is no actual logic going on in computers. There is only the symbolic representation of IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN logic. This symbolic representation of logic is implemented via manmade setups involving voltages, transistors and special circuits, together with manmade computer programs. And the input is manmade symbols, and the output is manmade symbols (words, sentences, equations, logical symbols etc.).

But the real-world logic, that the very first living things needed to use to respond appropriately to the multi-part world that surrounded them, is the real thing (and so is the logic that, I’m claiming, underlies the “quantum” behaviour of matter).

There is a difference between the real thing, and symbolic representations of the real thing,

Lorraine Ford

Fun fact: There are no zeroes or ones in computers: there are only higher and lower voltages that people decided to use to represent zeroes and ones in that particular computer setup. Depending on this manmade setup, the higher voltages could represent a one, or the lower voltages could represent a one.

Steve Dufourny

Lorraine Ford

Hi Lorraine, what you say is indeed very important.
The computer doesn’t truly use 0 and 1, but rather different voltages. This is not the same as human logic either.
What becomes relevant now, especially in quantum computing ,with the works of Bob Coecke, the Bloch sphere, and my idea of 3D Bloch volumes, is that voltages, charges, and magnetic orientationscan correspond to quantum states.
The choices we make as humans, such as deciding which voltage represents 1 or 0, become significant for the system we build. The volumes intrigue me and the negentropy for the time life of informations.
Silicon itself behaves according to the laws of physics, which are key for both transistors and quantum computing. The symbolic abstraction we use is just a human layer of meaning.
Physically speaking, quantum states and their motions oscillations represent real information and domains.
So, in quantum computing, logic arises from physical states and their interactions.
The logic of nature and quantum mechanics is implicit, not symbolic as ours is, our symbolic logic is explicit I think.
Boolean algebra is not the logic used by the universe,digital logic is simply our human representation, not universal logic itself.
Regards

marcovici alexandru

Lorraine Ford Fun fact: There are no zeroes or ones in computers: there are only higher and lower voltages that people decided to use to represent zeroes and ones in that particular computer setup. Depending on this manmade setup, the higher voltages could represent a one, or the lower voltages could represent a one.

i've read there are lots of fine interesting effects with these voltages , its a shame that people use them only for ones and zeros. nature sure doesn't

axions ? anyone's ?

Lorraine Ford

The ONLY essential features of life are that:

It knows about its multi-part surroundings and its multi-part internal state.
It analyses and collates this raw knowledge from its own point of view.
It acts/ moves in response to this knowledge and/or analysis.

And this is also what is seen in the “quantum” behaviour of matter, though seemingly not much analysis is going on in this case, and seemingly there is not much of an internal state.

While people represent the laws of nature in terms of equations (symbolic statements representing relationships between categories) and numbers that apply to the categories, people can only represent anything that knows and moves by utilising the type of symbolic statements found in computer programs.

Statements containing these types of symbols (IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN) can be used to represent the essential features of life:

Life’s knowledge of its multi-part surroundings and its multi-part internal state.
Life’s point-of-view analysis and collation of this raw knowledge.
Life’s action/ movement in response to this knowledge and/or analysis.

Ulla Mattfolk

i took this to AI:
Conclusion:

Lorraine's framework essentially says: The metasystem does not create the rules, it creates the necessity for the rules to be generated internally.

The "universe" (metasystem) is not an author of algorithms, but the essential, unyielding constraint that drives the Least Action Principle, forcing the entities to spontaneously generate their own stabilizing rules and relationships (Categories/Real Logic) to survive the constant external imbalance.
from where comes real logic?

marcovici alexandru

since i started using internet 2005 i have used accessed lots of large databases for millions of websites of dynamic static data structure

those website have been made by humans not ai not chat gpt, still not a single phonecall
maybe the internet architecture could be different
just saying, ...

i will subscribe to adam savage tested

later edit, the internet (or whatever will be in the future) with large networks of people also might be used to detect rare synchronicities (or other (quantum) sociological phenomena) this should be carefully considered by those doing networks science, personally i'm more interested to work on extraterestrials society on a different planet

Lorraine Ford

Nick Lane, a biochemist at University College London, gives a long talk (1), with lots of diagrams, on the origins and very complex chemistry of individual living cells. He concludes that feelings and agency are needed to handle the sheer complexity of what is going on in the cell.

“I would say the first beginnings of feelings is a kind of a readout of your metabolic state in relation to the environment and the beginnings of agency. Should I stay or should I go?”

He explains that so many things are going on at once in an individual cell in response to its environment, and explains that so many courses of action are possible to handle what is going on, that feelings (a type of high-level knowledge of the state of the cell) and agency (something high-level needed to direct activity in the cell) are already necessary at a cellular level.

But I’m contending that the quantum behaviour of low-level matter already shows the signs of point-of-view time-place knowledge of its surrounding situation on the part of matter, and shows the signs of time-place agency on the part of matter.

More than this, it is clear that a mathematical system, mathematics itself, needs something to be aware of/ know the mathematical situation, and something to initiate movement in the numbers.

………………..

“Nick Lane, Life as a Guide to Its Own Origins, Natural Philosophy Symposium 2025”, Hopkins Natural Philosophy Forum, posted 29 Oct 2025, 45:22. His talk was followed by comments from Michael Wong of Carnegie Science. The inaugural Natural Philosophy Symposium was held in Baltimore on May 29-31, 2025. www.youtube.com/watch?v=bHL_4qFU7S8

Steve Dufourny

Lorraine Ford Hi Lorraine,
I agree that these mathematical systems indeed require what you mentioned.
Could you tell me what you consider to be the cause? I tend to think in terms of information embedded in physical structures, but what is your idea, ontologically speaking?
Do you see it as fields or oscillations in General Relativity, perhaps in a Spinoza-like God as nature sense coding this spacetime ?
Please tell me about your ontological view. Friendly

Lorraine Ford

Steve Dufourny
Hi Steve,

I think it is clear that the base-level matter that comprises the world/ universe doesn’t exist as a big structureless lump, but seems to exist as small, interconnected parts. Whether it was something else before that, no one could know, and no one should make the mistake of bowing down and worshipping it.

We represent these interconnected parts mathematically, but it is clear that a mathematical system needs something (presumably the parts themselves) to be aware of/ know the mathematical situation, and something (presumably the parts themselves) to initiate movement in the numbers.

Steve Dufourny

Lorraine Ford Thanks for explaining. Yes, we don’t know the ultimate truth, but I think it is still relevant to explore philosophical possibilities without asserting them of course, even if we have deep limitations
I believe that an infinite, eternal, omnipotent 0-dimensional consciousness could be the key, but how it actually works, I do not know.

Lorraine Ford

I’m contending that primitive matter itself, and the very first life, and all subsequent life, necessarily moves/ jumps some of its own numbers, in response to its on-the-spot time-place surrounding situation and its internal situation.

This video is relevant to the issue of what is moving the numbers:

David Albert, Fundamental Laws of Physics and the Idea of Agency | Natural Philosophy Symposium 2025. Hopkins Natural Philosophy Forum, 6 Nov 2025, 36:44. David Albert is a philosopher of physics at Columbia University. He is interested in the foundations of quantum mechanics, the nature of time asymmetry, and philosophy of probability. His talk was followed by comments by Naftali Weinberger of the Munich Center for Mathematical Philosophy and Johns Hopkins University, www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TwP64DCLgk .

AI overview of philosopher David Albert's work on agency and time:
Philosopher David Albert's work on agency focuses on its role in explaining the direction of time and our experience of the future. He argues that our ability to directly control certain physical variables in the present—a form of agency—allows us to influence the future but not the past, and this can be used to explain why we perceive a difference between them. This perspective connects his work on agency to his broader interests in the philosophical foundations of physics, including the arrow of time and the measurement problem in quantum mechanics.

Ulla Mattfolk

Lorraine Ford A small asymmetry seems to be needed. It came from the cooling down, as a difference in thermodynamics, maybe?

Lorraine Ford

Ulla Mattfolk
What I'm talking about is: what is a moving system? and how do you symbolically represent a moving system?

All I'm contending is that there are aspects of the real-world system that are symbolically representable as categories, equations (statements that symbolically represent mathematical relationships between the categories), and numbers that apply to the categories; and there are other aspects of the real-world system that can only be symbolically represented as logical statements (statements containing algorithmic/ logical connective symbols like IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN that symbolically represent the system's time-place on-the-spot knowledge of itself, and represent the system initiating its own time-place on-the-spot movement in response to this knowledge).

Ulla Mattfolk

I look throught the new essays coming. So many of them are a pharse, not even 1 page long, some hardly 2 pages... Is there people that want to sabotage this contest, make it ridiculous? And the committee accept this??? And good ones like mine and others are refused? See Alternativ model of reality here. It IS protected, so don't bother to plagiate it.

I thought FQXI was a serious place, but evidently it is not? I am deeply disappointed in the low quality of these essays.

There are a few quite ok, like the ferritin and the epigenetics, the Decoherence engine, but also these are too special, no general reasoning here. No theory building at all... 100 years of quantum is irony.

It looks like they don't want to solve the measurement problem at all, and without a solution QM remain metaphysics. Maybe the money rule here?
Regards. Ulla.

Lorraine Ford

In order to represent a moving system, you need to use a computer program. The symbolic statements in a computer program represent a moving system. These statements employ special symbols like: IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN.

However, a lot of people seem to think that a set of law-of-nature equations, i.e. symbolic statements that represent relationships, are sufficient to represent the real-world moving system.

So, naturally enough, these people might try to straitjacket the quantum behaviour of matter into yet another equation, the Schrödinger equation.

But in fact, the quantum behaviour of matter can only be described by, but not prescribed by, computer programs, not by equations.

So, How Quantum is Life?

Those who think that the real-world moving system is like a set of prescriptive (i.e. deterministic) equations will come up with one answer about the nature of life, but those who think that the real-world moving system is like a set of descriptive computer programs will come up with a different answer about the nature of life.

But it is clear that the quantum behaviour of matter is displaying the IF, AND, OR, IS TRUE, and THEN behaviour that would be expected in a real-world moving system.

marcovici alexandru

In order to represent a moving system, you ~~need to~~ use a computer program

not necessarely , there might be equivalent structures between the underlying substrate that does the computation thing

however ultimately the hardware is to be different

thing 1 that does the' computation' versus another thing 2 that does 'computation'
is there something different that the thing one does compared to thing two?
is there something different that the thing two does compared to thing one?

it is not true that differences a have some computation not taken in to account ?

so a computer basically works because it tries to create similar common structures
the observer discards/forgets however lots of data to interpret (take in to consideration) those common structures ?

going to the transistor business the ones and zeros,
tought experiment so the tranzistor is made frome some semiconductors atoms imagine each of those atoms is a quibit in an quatum circuit, and all atoms are at the same time the usual bussiness tranzistor in a normal classical circuit

so is a double component in two types of hardware , is this possible ?

this is foundational we don't ask questions in public institute
are there two types of people, the ones that can ask questions and the ones that don't ?
the question is there , its takes an effort to verbalize write it , a question is like for a while loop
the answwer is like the running of it to see what is does

a questioning sentence is not that different from normal sentence (proposition)

Lorraine Ford

marcovici alexandru
What a load of disorganised, illogical, ignorant nonsense. Pathetic!

I should add that I’m not going to try to wade through, and try to make sense of, this sewerage.

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