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Jonathan,

you responded well but i still await a detailed response as also a visit by you at my essay on this forum. It seems many of us are finding shortage of time but there is no lack of space. Let us ponder why. Time spent on courtesies can be saved perhaps!

Thanks Edwin Eugene,

It is appreciated that the reference to Kaluza-Klein gave you the opportunity to point out how the field arose from Physics considerations, and was only later connected to the subject of Consciousness. It's pretty cool actually. The explanation above of the derivation of key concepts gives me a good bit more clarity. That the field interacts with its own mass-energy is a crucial point to grasp, to understand your construction. The fact that this field does have a physical significance, after all, is interesting.

I thank you for the post above, as it makes certain things fall into place. I only have a few minutes available, right now, but I'll look at your response to my last comment on your page next.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Thanks again Frank,

I feel you are correct that too many feel that they can analyze things to death, differentiating finer and finer levels of detail in reductionist form, where what we need now is to integrate information. The conference I'm attending this week is sure to fill me with fresh insights into your ideas, as there is an emphasis here on subjective learning. I feel this is essential to include in the process of searching for answers in all the sciences. How best to accomplish this is still a bit unclear. Physics is perhaps the most objective, and this is essential, but a lot of theoretical Physics does seem as though it is mainly the stuff of dreams.

Thanks for clarifying for me where your emphasis differs from that of Kaluza and Klein. I wish that was more explicit in your essay, as I feel that some people must be getting to that point (where you mention their work) and feeling that you have missed something. But your comments make it clear that they are missing something important too (or instead). I'll have more to say later this week, or on the weekend. My time on the library's machine today is about finished.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Thank you also Steve,

Your comments have been helpful, and are appreciated.

All the Best,

Jonathan

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Hi Jonathan. Thank you for your reply. Two statements of Einstein come to mind, and one by J.C. Maxwell:

"It is the theory which decides what we can observe..."

"Imagination is more important than knowledge."

James Clerk Maxwell - "The only laws of matter are those that our minds must fabricate and the only laws of mind are fabricated for it by matter."

Schroedinger was puzzled by life enough to suggest "a new type of physical law." -- p. 258 -- See Paul Davies' book The Fifth Miracle. Also see De Duve: "Life and mind emerge...as natural manifestations of matter, written into the fabric of the universe." -- p.252 thereof. And Darwin: "The principle of life will hereafter be shown to be a part, or consequence, of some general law" -- p.252 thereof. Look at the words "GENERAL law"! --- PERFECT!

IMPORTANTLY, now consider ALL of the above with what follows.

This physical law is said unification of gravity and electromagnetism/light. The physical (and sensory) reality/experience/basis/correspondence of/to this law is dream experience, whereby thought is more like sensory experience in general (including gravity and electromagnetism/light). The ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sensory experience is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sensory experience -- this clearly relates to memory, art, genius, dreams, being "one with the music", and telescopic/astronomical observations.

To think that the unification of General Relativity and Maxwell's Theory of Light -- that is mathematically proven by the addition of a spatial dimension to Einstein's theory -- is not readily and significantly apparent in our experience is one of the greatest oversights or blunders of common sense that has ever occurred.

Do you not agree; for if I am correct (and I am), would I not be entitled to/deserving of the Nobel Prize in Physics?

Also, you apparently agree with the following?:

In relation to the increased transparency/invisibility of space in astronomical/telescopic observations (that makes these observations

possible) -- see my prior post(s) please -- is there not a uniformity of gravity/acceleration (that would provide an additional binding energy) regarding the outer stars accelerating more than they should be (in, say, spiral galaxies)? Consider objects near Earth in the invisible/transparent space/sky. Isn't the redshift consistent with/indicative of the increased transparency/invisibility of space that makes such astronomical/telescopic observations possible? Is all of this not true as well?

Can you circulate or mention these very important ideas at the conference that you are attending this week? Thanks. I await your reply. Frank

Hi Jonathan. In addition to my last post, closely consider the following post as well, if you would. You will love the proof contained herein regarding the importance of time.

I have demonstrated the equivalency of extension in time and space at a three to one ratio in keeping with the following (below). I have shown that the integrated extensiveness of being and experience go hand-in-hand in and with time. What I will now demonstrate with regard to time alone is GIGANTIC.

Dreams unify gravity and electromagnetism/light by involving what is [the gravitational and electromagnetic/light] mid-range of feeling between thought and sense. Gravity and electromagnetism/light are both attractive and repulsive in the dream.

I have demonstrated gravity as attractive and repulsive, in keeping with relatively constant (and proper) lighting, energy, and brightness, in a space that is (at once) understood to be larger/additive and relatively smaller. The space is also invisible and visible at once. The distance (or size) of space in the dream is dynamic or variable as well.

Electromagnetism/light is not only associated with extremes of size (e.g., photons and the Sun, in comparison with the Earth and typical/ordinary space), but also with extremes of gravity (or gravitational influence).

I have demonstrated electromagnetism/light as gravitational space; as space manifests as both gravitational and electromagnetic/light energy (involving constant energy as well).

Now comes definitive and further mathematical proof regarding said unification; and, importantly, this comes in addition to what is the already known/demonstrated mathematical union of Maxwell's and Einstein's theories in a fourth dimension of space.

This further mathematical demonstration/proof of the subject unification is now provided in what is also a fundamental, simple, and convincing fashion; as I have shown the three to one (one third) relation of both space (the three space dimensions in relation to the fourth space dimension) and time (3 to 1 in Einstein's theory of gravity) in dreams; as dreams occur during the one third of our lives that we spend sleeping. In other words, the extension in space (three to one, or one third) is consistent with extension in time as well. Note: there are three parts of time -- past, present, future.

Since the self has extensiveness of being and experience (in and with time) in conjunction with the integrated and natural extensiveness of sensory experience, we spend less time dreaming (and sleeping) than waking. The integrated extensiveness of being and experience go hand in hand.

Dreams are an emotional experience that occur during the one third of our lives that we spend sleeping, because emotion is one part (or one third) of feeling, emotion, and thought. Consistent with this, both feeling and thought are proportionately reduced in the dream. Thoughts and emotions are differentiated feelings. Dreams are essential for thoughtful and emotional balance, integration, comprehensiveness, consistency, and resiliency. Indeed, emotion that is comprehensive and balanced advances consciousness. If the self did not represent, form, and experience a comprehensive approximation of experience in general, we would be incapable of growth and of becoming other than we are.

The reduction in the range of feeling that occurs during dream experience is associated with a reduction in both thought and experience in general.

Thought involves a relative reduction in the range and extensiveness of feeling. In keeping with this, dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general. Accordingly, both thought and also the range and extensiveness of feeling are proportionately reduced in the dream. (This reduction in the range and extensiveness of feeling during dreams is consistent with the fact that the experience of smell very rarely occurs therein.) Since there is a proportionate reduction of both thought and feeling during dreams, the experience of the body is generally (or significantly) lacking; for thought is fundamentally rendered more like sensory experience in general. Thoughts and emotions are differentiated feelings. By involving the mid-range of feeling between thought and sense, dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general. The reduction in the range and extensiveness of feeling during dreams is why there is less memory and thought therein.

What is ultimately possible in physics (including mathematically) is necessarily tied to the integrated, interactive, and natural extensiveness of being, thought, and [sensory] experience. In fact, reality must be understood (in varying degrees, of course) as pertaining to (or involving) what is the integrated extensiveness of being and experience (including thought).

It is readily apparent that my essay rating is ridiculously incompetent/unfair/inaccurate. Thanks again Jonathan. Thank you for having a free/open mind and for truly caring to learn, help, and grow. Frank

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Dear Jonathan,

I just finished reading your essay for the second time. It was still interesting.

Energy-time could be tied into the Second Law of Thermodynamics, which relates Entropy and Time. Entropy measures how much Energy is or isn't useable.

You related Matter-Time to the life trajectory of a particle. Similarly, Matter-Time could be tied into Dirac's Large Numbers Hypothesis (LNH) and the Gravity-brane. Dirac's LNH says that the age of the Universe (relative to typical atomic transitions) and the inverse Gravitational Coupling (relative to the inverse Electromagnetic Fine Structure) are both ~1040. I think this large number arises from properties of the Gravity-brane, and thus some of hyperspace's matter content.

You quoted Alex B. Mayer as saying "the nuclear strong force and gravitation are the identical phenomena (spacetime geometry in the context of wave mechanics) operating at different length scales." It is no coincidence that String Theory first started as an approach towards a theory of the Strong Nuclear force, and later became an approach towards the theory of Gravity. Lawrence Crowell's next paper utilizes these similarities.

You also talked about Philip Gibbs' "Theory of All Theories" as being the sum total of all possible models. Mohamed El Naschie defined "E-Infinity" as the sum of all one and two Stein spaces. My K12' is closely related to his E-Infinity. The difference is one degree of freedom that could be some Grand Higgs that breaks the original symmetries.

You have a good paper, and you deserve to be one of the winners. Good Luck!

Ray Munroe

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Hi Jonathan:

I have faith in your ability to advance the understanding. You say:

"the wave-like aspect of things is preserved and becomes a part of physical reality, rather than being supplanted by the particle-like aspect.

However; even the massless carriers of energy known as photons must be quantized or made particle-like, in order to exist in physical reality. This is a reminder that matter, energy, space, and time, must coexist for reality to be as it is."

Time is ultimately dependent upon the integrated extensiveness of being, experience, thought, and space -- so yes, time is central. Distance in/from space is related to the size of space(s) -- this makes the unification of gravity and electromagnetism/light possible. Dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general. Dreams are sensory experience/physics; and, as such, they are a gold mine for physical ideas. My ideas, when coupled with yours, give excellent and very broad/organizing perspective to the thinkers and physicists on here.

Consider the blackness of outer space (and blindingly bright, white stars). Now consider the invisibility/transparency of the eye (and of the daytime space/sky as well) in relation to the clear visibility of the body and Earth.

Visibility and brightness are central to unifying and advancing our understanding of sensory experience/physics in general. Invisible, visible, particle, and wave UNITED is critical.

How a larger space is made smaller, AND how a smaller space is made larger is also key. -- Hot/cold need to be (and are) then balanced as well.

How space manifests as electromagnetic/gravitational energy is the central and most valuable physical idea. (I have proven this in my essay.) Do you see how this concept, this post, your essay, and my essay cover/include: space, time, matter, energy, wave/particle, balancing/varying scale, repulsive/attractive, and visible/invisible when taken together?

Understand how all of this (and dreams) contribute(s) to the integrated extensiveness of being, time, thought, space, and experience in general.

  • [deleted]

Hello again Jonathan.

In reply to the further info. you wanted on invisible/visible, I offer the following. You said that you liked the idea of linking the telescoping/narrowing of vision in dreams and telescopic/astronomical obs.

You will like this:

The unification of gravity and electromagnetism/light merges and includes invisibility and visibility as a requirement of balancing/uniting scale. Particle/wave also. Space manifesting as electromagnetic/gravitational energy.

Compared to the blackness of space, the increased transparency/invisibility of space in astronomical/telescopic observations is very important. This allows us to see farther. But this also means, again, that space is becoming increasingly invisible/transparent. This occurs in dreams, as space is increasingly invisible in dreams; in fact, the experience of space in dreams is both invisible AND visible. (This is why you may or may not touch what you see in the dream as well.) Astronomical observations, to a significant extent, are interactive creations of thought. My essay talks about this.

The reduction in the range and extensiveness of feeling in dreams and the increase in the invisibility/transparency of space therein not only relate to the sensory experience [therein] being more like thought, but this also relates to/is consistent with the relative reduction in the brightness/feeling of the red Sun (including the redshift). Astronomical/telescopic observations have significant similarities with dreams.

Note the transparent space/sky around the larger and red [setting] sun.

The line (or feeling) of gravity is altered/reduced -- in comparison with the Sun being overhead, when it is brighter -- so the Sun appears differently (and is not as bright) when it is in front of us. This is consistent with the reduction of gravity/feeling/brightness in the dream, with the increased invisibility/transparency of the space therein, and with the eyes being (basically) locked forward. (Telescopic/astronomical observations make the objects larger, or they could not be seen at all.)

(Note that thoughts are relatively shifting and variable, so dream vision is also relatively shifting and variable.) In relation to the increased transparency/invisibility of space, is there not a uniformity of gravity/acceleration (that would provide an additional binding energy)regarding the outer stars accelerating more than they should be (in, say, spiral galaxies)? Consider objects near Earth in the invisible/transparent space/sky.

Dreams make thought more like sensory experience in general, thereby unifying gravity and electromagnetism/light. Note that the Earth is in a relatively smaller space (the transparent/invisible sky) compared to that of the Sun.

The setting Sun looks more like the Earth because it feels more like the Earth WHEN SEEN. (And because it is also seen in/with a transparent/invisible sky.)

The integrated extensiveness of being and experience go hand-in-hand.

The world requires and involves man.

  • [deleted]

Hi Jonathan, remember you wrote to me:

"I just re-read your second post above and it made a bit more sense of something you were saying in the earlier post. Your statement at the end "How space manifests as electromagnetic/gravitational energy is a central and very valuable physical idea." is right on. Perhaps the key, as you say, is to recognize that there is both an attractive and repulsive component at work - which changes the effective action at different levels of scale. This makes unification simpler."

"We end up 1) Balancing/unifying scale and 2) Balancing attraction and repulsion in conjunction with space manifesting both gravitationally and electromagnetically. (Think wave/particle)."

When you consider the extremes of electromagnetic energy/space (e.g., photons and the [relatively disintegrated] Sun) as they relate to extremes of scale, invisibility AND relatively disintegrated come to mind. Comparatively, look at the [relatively integrated] Earth and the clear/transparent/invisible sky. Disintegrated and integrated go hand-in-hand (along with particle/wave) in conjunction with balancing and uniting invisible/visible AND scale. That is huge, is it not? See how this connects with space manifesting as electromagnetic/gravitational energy?

Thanks Jonathan.

Dear Jonathan,

I forgot an obvious one - Energy-Time is related to the Heisenberg Uncertainty Relation and Planck's constant, which may be our "resolution" scale of reality.

Thank you for your positive comments and references.

Good Luck in the contest!

Ray Munroe

Hello again All,

I am back home today, and have read several essays while away. I shall field any comments with due haste until week's end, at least, so that questions are answered which can facilitate understanding. I especially value the interaction with the other authors, as we are all in the same boat here. It has been a privilege to have this conversation with you. But comments from others are welcome too!

Thanks again Ray, for your thoughtful comments and appreciation of my essay. The response is most welcome, and I am thankful and honored that a deep thinker like yourself finds that much value in my words. I guess that the 10 years of mulling the ideas over and 18-20 re-writes of the essay have paid off. I took what I thought was an inordinate amount of time with editing this paper, but at some point I had to let it go. I'm glad the end product is interesting and/or helpful to folks like yourself.

You will find a few comments on your essay, back on that forum page.

Thanks again Frank, for your voluminous comments. They too are appreciated. You raise many valid points, but it will take a little while for me to understand what some of your points are. Ergo; I shall re-read what's posted above, and make more comments later.

All the Best,

Jonathan

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Come on Jonathan. How about this idea?

Time is ultimately dependent upon the integrated extensiveness of being, experience, space, and thought.

Please consider the aspect of space then, in keeping with the above. This is consistent with your idea(s) on time, or is it?

Thanks.

Greetings Frank,

OK then. I'll start with your last comment first, then work backward toward a broader understanding. The 'integrated extensiveness of being, experience, space, and thought' all relate to time. One could say that time is the source of 'the extensiveness of being,' in that only when time has an extent can the other attributes exist. The existence of time does not appear to be dependent on experience, per se, although the perception of time is certainly experiential. It may be helpful to introduce the concept of observability here, as this is the core issue. Paul Kwiat did some experiments at Los Alamos a number of years back, on 'Interaction-Free Measurements' of quantum mechanical systems. One fact that emerged is that even the possibility for measurement or observation has the potential to influence the outcome - or change the face of the system being observed. Even so, they were able to make some determinations effectively without interactions, a percentage of the time.

Some confusion may arise, when considering thought experiments like "Schrödinger's Cat," because macroscopic objects and observers do not partake of quantum superposition as a unit. While photons, particles, atoms, and small molecules may exist in a superposed state - and fairly large collections can be a coherent unit in a BEC - larger aggregates of Quantum entities behave like their Classical counterparts. So while things are in an indeterminate state until they are 'observed' in the quantum-mechanical world, this doesn't mean we can assume Mr. Schrödinger's poor cat is both alive and dead until we look into the box. There is no physical basis for the existence of an alive-dead superposition for cats, and decoherence theory and quantum measurement experiments clearly show that a cat will display mainly classical attributes. The idea that astronomical observations are - in many ways - a participatory process, however, does hold water.

So in examining the idea you propose I don't want to throw out any useful generalizations, but I don't want to misapply them, by trying to artificially over-extend their range of usability. In fact, this is something my essay specifically urges that we avoid. In the quantum-mechanical context, observation can be any sort of microscale interaction, and this doesn't require a macroscopic observer to be present. So while both time and space can be said to emerge from the 'integrated extensiveness of being,' it is another matter to elucidate how experience and thought enter the picture. While it is certain that they are a part of the story, and that they shape the face of Physics (or at least our understanding thereof), it is not certain how experience and thought relate to underlying causes of events in physical reality.

To an extent, these concepts have a realization in ideas like "Digital Physics" or "It from Bit" - and in the emerging Science of Quantum Information Physics - however, it is observability and computability we would speak of in this context. The subjective experience of what is happening is different from what is observable, and how a mind can think of things is different from what is computable. There is, however, a connection or link between the cognitive process and the creative process, as both involve levels of abstraction which are employed to model or shape form. If there is a way that this relates back to your comments, it is thus.

The extensiveness of being could refer to the ability of dimensions and qualities to be extended, so that they have a particular value or extent, and become quantities. If we further generalize the ideal of experience to be the capacity to observe, then a connection with observability is possible. Likewise, if we generalize thought to be the capacity to think - and we link this with computation - a cogent derivation of quantities like time and space can be propounded. I coined the phrase "It computes, therefore it is" in imitation of Descartes' "cogito ergo sum" or "I think, therefore I am." A more precise translation of Descartes might be "Thinking therefore Being" which seems to fit well with what you are saying, but may not qualify for being called physical law. At the very least; it remains to be shown that this is, or even could be, the case.

Does this answer satisfy you, or relate intelligently your message to the essay question? That's really the issue here, you know. We are not in denial about the importance of subjective realms, but people in these forums are trying to relate any comments back to what may aid the evolution of Physics as a Science, and allow our greater understanding of the Universe or Cosmos. Neither I nor the other essay writers are trying to belittle your views, Frank, but sometimes trying to derive how your commentary advances Physics is difficult. I have made an earnest attempt to give you my best insights, as to how some of your ideas might benefit Physics' progress, and I hope they will suffice.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Dear Jonathan,

I found arxiv articles by Baez and Barrett from 1999 and 2001 (both attached). Both of these articles tie in the 4-simplex, which is the key to E8 pentality symmetry. I want to better understand the fifth vertex of the 4-simplex because this seems to be the origin of tachyons. The older article has 4 j's, but not 10 j's. I would be interested in similar articles.

Thank You!

Ray MunroeAttachment #1: 1_9903060v1.pdfAttachment #2: 1_0101107v2.pdf

Dear Jonathan Dickau,

I have responded on my page to a comment from Narendra Nath. It is an extended comment and one that you may find interesting. Thank you for your comments and exchanges in this forum. I have enjoyed all of them immensely, especially your last communication with me.

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Hello again Ray,

Ah yes. Or should I say whoops? A quick review of my file collection reveals that while the Baez-Barret paper on integrability (arXiv:gr-qc/0101107) is foundational to that work (and to CDT I imagine), the paper on (asymptotics of) the 10j symbols is by Baez, Christensen, and Egan arXiv:gr-qc/0208010. Somewhere in the back of my mind, I must have labeled the Baez-Barrett paper as essential reading for understanding the asymptotics of 10j symbols paper. I take an ambling course sometimes, in getting to an understanding about a subject of interest.

Hopefully it will aid your understanding. I have a lot more papers I selected, when I was trying to understand the basis for CDT - and I'll look through them. I am still curious about how things will shake out, given the Fermi results. It was the addition of a causal constraint (where the timelines of adjacent simplices have to match) that made the CDT formula work in the first place, so if this violation of Lorentz symmetry near the Planck scale is ruled out - it is not a workable model. I still have the distinct impression that the notion of time has a very different meaning on that level of scale, compared to what we see on the macroscopic level, but I guess it remains to be seen just what that is.

I do not believe that time is linear and unchanging at the microscale. I have imagined that it is more like breezes down there, and becomes like a steady wind for object-sized or cosmic events. I tend to feel that there is an illusion of time's constancy, that arises from the steady motion of the planet through the cosmos, but that is largely intuitive as I have no clear reasoning to explain why that should be. Perhaps it is related to decoherence, or if Darryl Leiter is correct to the way particle-particle interactions are colored by their mutual measurement of each other. I wonder if MC-QED still flies, in light of the Fermi results. I imagine it might.

But I digress. Thanks again for your interest in this thread - I'll pass on any further references that seem relevant.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Thanks Edwin Eugene,

I shall examine your comments to Narendra (on your forum) shortly. I thank you for your continued interest and good will.

All the Best,

Jonathan

  • [deleted]

Hi Jonathan. Previously, you had replied to me as folllows:

Your statement at the end "How space manifests as electromagnetic/gravitational energy is a central and very valuable physical idea." is right on. Perhaps the key, as you say, is to recognize that there is both an attractive and repulsive component at work - which changes the effective action at different levels of scale. This makes unification simpler."

"We end up 1) Balancing/unifying scale and 2) Balancing attraction and repulsion in conjunction with space manifesting both gravitationally and electromagnetically. (Think wave/particle)."

My reply to you is: Electromagnetic space (e.g., photons and the Sun) is both larger and smaller than ordinary or typical space(s)/objects (such as the Earth). When space manifests as gravitational/electromagnetic energy (as it does in dreams), scale is then balanced; and space is particle/wave, invisible/visible, and larger/smaller. Accordingly, space is both repulsive and attractive as well. Witness the variable size/distance of space in dreams. Energy is constant, brightness is adjusted perfectly, and vision/visibility is very well adjusted/discernible. Note that the space is integrated and yet disintegrated as well. Is it hard to see how my ideas apply to physics? Not hardly. This is way too much to just pass over Jonathan. Dreams make sensory experience (including gravity and electromagnetism/light) in general more like thought. Couple this with the fact that the ability of thought to describe or reconfigure sense is ultimately dependent upon the extent to which thought is similar to sensory experience, and it is readily apparent that the known mathematical union of Einstein's gravity and Maxwell's electromagnetism/light in a fourth spatial dimension requires dreams. (Note that thoughts are relatively shifting and variable, so dream vision is also relatively shifting and variable.) This is why I deserve the Nobel Prize in Physics.

Thanks Frank,

I appreciate your efforts to respond to my comments. Unfortunately; there are a few points that still don't make sense for me. And I feel you haven't really addressed the additional comments and questions in my response. You may have a brilliant idea, but you haven't proved it to me yet, and it seems like that would take some work. I'm not on the Nobel committee, but it's unlikely I'd recommend you for the prize just yet. Sorry, those are the facts.

But I wish you luck building bridges to your ideas that will support others besides yourself. As I said on your forum page, even if your idea is brilliant, you still have to explain it well - if you want to get your point across. And that is a worthy challenge for anyone championing a breakthrough or visionary concept.

All the Best,

Jonathan