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  • Post #5

Dear Emmanuel,

I have read your paper and find it very inspiring, especially the way you look at the wave-particle duality. You have used the metaphor of the cylinder in order to illustrate this dualism. You are showing how an object like a cylinder can reflect two apparently irreconcilable geometrical shapes of a circle and of a rectangle without being neither a circle nor a a rectangle.

I am studying the archetypal structure of the Mandala, in which a circle and a square are closely entangled. To my opinion this archetypal structure describes light at the most fundamental level of the universe. It dualistic structure implies a surprising feature: If the Mandala is truly a fundamental blueprint of the universe then light does not only act in two different ways, as far as the speed of light c is concerned there are two geometrical faces as well: a circle and a square. Both geometrical matrices are quite different but they are parametrized in the same way: c = 1. And just this conspirational aspect makes it so difficult to recognize this hidden aspect of light. (About the Dual Parametrization of c)

May be you will find this idea inspiring as well.

Good Luck in the contest

Helmut

    Dear Helmut,

    I don't know your work but thank you for your encouragement.

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    • Post #7

    Dear Emmanuel,

    "dixitque Deus fiat lux et facta est lux"

    I understand that you consider the photon to be the most fundamental in the following sense:

    - it was the first type of particle, created from the initial singularity by Hawking radiation, and as a sign of this process you refer to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) radiation

    - fermions (including baryon-antibaryon pairs) occurred from photons, via "pair production in two-photon collisions". You argue correctly that, although today we mostly see pair annihilation, somewhere around the Big Bang the conditions favored pair creation enough to obtain fermionic matter.

    I understand that when you say that the photon is the most fundamental, you mean that it precedes "historically" other particles, not that it is structurally speaking more fundamental. That is, you do not claim that the electrons are constituded somehow from photons (Louis de Broglie adopted the opposite view, that the photon is composed of two fermions).

    - around the Big Bang before the electroweak symmetry was broken, you say that "if the temperature is high enough, the bosons W± and Z0 become photons". You also say "gluons become photons when the temperature reaches a threshold higher than the electroweak symmetry breaking threshold". For these, you refer to Weinberg's book.

    Here I confess that, like Florin, I cannot see how the W±, Z0 and gluons were photons. But maybe there is no need for them to be so, as they could be obtained by pair creation just like the fermions.

    - to explain the gravity and spacetime geometry as in general relativity, you say "Space and time are measured relative to photons."

    - to explain quantum mechanics, you say "If the photon is the most fundamental element in the universe, then it explains the wave-particle duality of matter and it implies that the universe is both continuous and discrete at the most fundamental level."

    I agree that the photon has in its blood the laws of quantum theory and relativity. I find difficult to understand which one is the chicken and which one is the egg, to paraphrase you.

    Your essay is interesting and pleasant to read. Good luck.

    Best regards,

    Cristi

    Dear Cristi,

    Thank you very much for your interesting comments and summary of my essay. I would like to clarify two things.

    The first one is that the Hawking radiation is not supposed to be made of photons only but of general radiations. Thus, we can imagine that some particles as electron can emerge from the horizon of black holes. Nevertheless, it is probably impossible for the Planck horizon due to the conservation laws. Indeed, if an electron goes out of a black hole, it implies that the black hole have a charge that changes. If there is a first original radiation at the Planck epoch, it cannot be charged due to the conservation laws and because the Planck horizon does not cut the space in two, like horizons of black holes. For these reasons, I think that photons are a good candidate to be at the origin of a first radiation that removes the initial singularity.

    The second one concerns the gauge bosons. To my mind, gauge bosons were more an evolution of photons due to the symmetry breakings than a stable product of pair productions. Nevertheless, with your point of view, we can define a fundamental particle (boson and fermion) as the stable product of a pair production in two-photon collisions. The stability of reactions depends on the temperature, as proposed with the symmetry breakings. Definitely, this is a good suggestion compatible with the Feynman diagrams.

    Emmanuel

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      • Post #9

      Dear Emmanuel,

      Of all 7 essays displayed to December 22, your essay is the most "physical", it is a true example of independent research; Although I don't agree that photon can be the most fundamental element of the universe. All particles are equal in rights, why photon must have advantages concerning other particles? It is violation of symmetry. Also your example of wave-particle duality as "The metaphor of the cylinder" is very new and original.

      Sincerely

      Constantin

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        • Post #10

        Dear Emmanuel,

        thanks for the clarifications. The first one answered to one concern I had about the preference for photons in the primordial radiation in your model. I find your explanation very ingenious.

        Cristi

        Dear Constantin,

        Yes, it is an independent research and yes I make a classical physical assumption in this essay. I think that photons can help us to remove the initial singularity, contrary to other particles (see my previous post).

        Thank you for your remarks.

        Emmanuel

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        • Post #12

        Dear Emmanuel,

        what do you mean by "photons remove the initial singularity"?

        Do you mean that the singularity doesn't exist because is balanced somehow by a pressure due to the photon field, or that it evaporates into photons?

        Thanks,

        Cristi

        Dear Cristi,

        This is a key point of the essay. To answer to this question, we have to come back to the foundations of the General Relativity and time. The General Relativity stipulates that we live on a four dimensional Lorentzian manifold whose metric, which is the link between the time variable and the space variables, is a solution of the Einstein field equations. What is exactly this time variable? I have written an eprint available here http://cel.archives-ouvertes.fr/cel-00511837 where I try to explain that the time variable represents the possibility of motion for the matter relative to the speed of light (which is the possibility of motion of photons) along the geodesics defined by a metric. If there are photons only at the Planck epoch, the meaning of the time variable falls down due to the fact that photons have no proper time. I agree that it is always possible to calculate the solutions of the Einstein field equations for a large quantity of energy, but the time variable has no meaning with photons only. It is exactly as if you calculate the solution of a differential equation describing the evolution of the quantity of fish on a planet which has no water at the beginning of its evolution. In a certain kind, I think that the physical reality of photons can protect us again the initial mathematical singularity of the Einstein field equations.

        Emmanuel

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          • Post #14

          Dear Emmanuel,

          the eprint you mention would have been a good entry for the first FQXi contest. Thanks for your explanations.

          Cristi

          4 days later

          Dear Emmanuel,

          I have reread your essay and the eprint mentioned above and I agree with Cristi that your eprint would have been a excellent entry to the first contest and especially enjoyed the simplicity and clarity of your definition of time. I also believe that the ideas from both of your papers complement some of my own. I will be finishing my essay in the next week or two and I hope you will seek it out, since I would value your opinion. I am addressing the issue from a fundamental cosmological viewpoint and I believe that you may find some of the conclusions interesting.

          Dan

          Dear Dan,

          Your post is very important. Indeed, the notion of time is fundamental in order to develop a physical theory. We have to come back to an old debate between Albert Einstein and Ernst Mach concerning the relativity. Ernst Mach thought that all was relative (speed but also acceleration) whereas Einstein has postulated that all is relative with respect to the speed of light and thus nothing can go faster than the speed of light. For another reason, Albert Einstein has introduced the notion of light quanta: the photon. Concerning time, there is a similar debate. You can think that time is totally relative (see the fantastic book of Julian Barbour "The End of Time") or you can think, as me, that time is defined relative to the speed of light. I have developed this idea and I have given a definition of time: "The time coordinate ct represents the possibility of motion for the matter relative to the speed of light c along the geodesics defined by a metric g" (see http://cel.archives-ouvertes.fr/cel-00511837) and then time comes from the time coordinate but it is not a fundamental variable of the General Relativity. Then I have tried to extend the idea of relativity with respect to photons to the fundamental particles. Actually, you can obtain all the fundamental particles starting with photons only, as an evolution of photons depending on the temperature (see the previous posts). Somehow, the fundamental particles are defined relative to photons (I have made a mistake concerning the bosons corrected by Cristi). The next step was to postulate that the fundamental element in the universe is the photon. This is a very different philosophy than the one of the Quantum Gravity, but this is the same goal. The last step is to see if there is a problem with the initial singularity. To my mind, this problem can be compared with the Hawking radiation. If you have only photons at the boundary of the Planck epoch, and with the previous definition of time, the notion of time falls down. Indeed, the notion of time starts with the first pair production at the boundary of the Planck epoch. The Planck area is well defined with known particles: the photons, but there is no time and thus the motion is not defined.

          I will read your essay with pleasure.

          Emmanuel

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          • Post #17

          Hi dear Christi and dear Emmanuel,

          Congratulations for this beautiful papper Emmanuel and your explainations,like says Christi,it is pleasant to read also.

          Regards

          Steve

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          • Post #18

          Dear Emanuel Moulay,

          You explained that time travel is impossible. However, I looked in vain for an explanation for the direction chicken-egg-chicken-egg. Admittedly, I am not familiar with some mathematical notions, for instance nabla in the sense of Levi-Civita connection.

          You called General Relativity most fundamental. Sorry, I would like to disagree: Fundamental to it is perhaps what you referred to as the Lorentzian metric signature (n-1,1). Can you please point me to convincing evidence that supports it? So far I looked into some original papers by Voigt, Heaviside, FitzGerald, Lodge, Larmor, Lorentz, Poincaré, Einstein 1905, and Minkowski.

          Eckard

          Dear Eckard,

          In physics, proofs come from experiments, contrary to Mathematics. Thus, you obtain that a theory is checked with a certain degree of precision. Concerning the General Relativity, there are many papers showing that this theory is checked with a huge degree of precision (see for instance the works of Holger Müller at Berkeley).

          Concerning the time travel, you have to define what time is. Based on the General Relativity, I have developed the idea that time is not fundamental in the General Relativity and comes from the time variable. The time variable represents the possibility of motion for the matter (the matter is all non zero mass objects) relative to the speed of light. Then, time comes from the possibility of motion. It is strange but there is no arrow of time at the fundamental level, only motions relative to the speed of light (or relative to photons which are the light quanta). Nevertheless, due to the second law of thermodynamics, some motions are not allowed. With this point of view, the time travel makes no sense. This is the motion relative to photons which is fundamental, not time, as usually defined.

          Emmanuel

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            • Post #20

            Hi ,

            Indeed it's impossible to travel in time, the time is purelly irreversible and constant.The space time of Eisntein is an evolutive system where the localities respect the constant.

            It's not a real dimension and furthermore the extradimensions do not exists like tachyons.

            The strings imply so many confusions.

            Regards

            Steve

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            • Post #21

            Dear Emmanuel,

            I apologize for misspelling your name. You pointed me to http://www.berkeley.edu/news/media/releases/2010/02/17_gravitational_redshift.shtml

            Well, confirmation of predictions is indeed a necessary precondition for at least partial correctness of a theory. However, I maintain my objection against the claim that the whole theory of relativity is fundamental on a sound theoretical basis, and am reiterating my desire to learn convincing arguments for Lorentz transformation. Do not get me wrong. I have no reason to distrust the limitation for the speed of propagating electromagnetic waves. I just see flaws in some theories, and I wonder why there is apparently no way to unify them.

            I asked for the direction of time, and you wrote "It is strange but there is no arrow of time at the fundamental level". Do you agree with Schulman? I quoted him in my earlier essays 369 or 527.

            Eckard

            Dear Eckard,

            I am not sure to understand what you mean. The Lorentz transformation is the mathematical way to explain how the speed of light was observed to be independent of the reference frame in the Special Relativity. I don't see any flaw in this theory. You can read the initial work of Henri Poincaré (or any book about the Special Relativity) to be convinced that the Lorentz transformation is the right way to express the fact that the speed of light is constant.

            I think that the problem of unification you talk about is the one of the quantum gravity (unification of the General Relativity and the Quantum Mechanics). It is a very hard mathematical program with two main theories: the string theory and the loop quantum gravity. Actually, the fundamental questions are the unity of physics and the beginning of the universe. It is possible that a physical solution emerges from the quantum gravity program. As an alternative, I point out in my essay that we could answer to the previous fundamental questions if we make the assumption that the photon is the most fundamental element in the universe.

            Emmanuel

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              • Post #23

              Hi Emmanuel,

              I too liked many aspects of your essay. I was particularly pleased to see your following statements:-

              "that time is defined relative to the speed of light." and "The time coordinate ct represents the possibility of motion for the matter relative to the speed of light c along the geodesics defined by a metric g".

              I think this touches on something deep and potentially far reaching! I have long thought that what we call "time" should be expressed in a form that represents "potentiality" of motion. Our reliance on the use of "clock time", whilst operationally useful, cannot bring us closer to an understanding of fundamental reality. This "potentiality" is actualised by the redistribution of energy which, as you say, brings us back to photons. Our conventional time variables, operators etc, can only ever be considered as relative spatial displacements caused by motion and therefore *cannot explain themselves*.

              I'm not so sure about your description of "wave/particle duality" as "continuous and discrete". I stand to be corrected but I thought that all wave forms can be quantised, including their various fourier modes, so that we still have discrete/digital information? I guess it may depend on your definitions?

              Finally, could you please clarify..."I think that photons can help us to remove the initial singularity". From your description it seems to me that the initial singularity still existed at t=0, even though it may have "evaporated" extremely rapidly. It would have existed as a point of infinite energy density I think, given your explanation? Or are you saying that, as it did not exist "in time", it is unobservable and therefore not "real"?

              Good luck in the contest!

              Regards,

              Roy

              Dear Roy,

              Thank you for your comment. I suppose that you agree with my definition of time relative to the speed of light. In the history of the universe, if we get back in time then we know that some pair production reactions are not possible when the temperature reaches a certain threshold. I suppose that the photon is the primordial element and that the Planck epoch corresponds to the epoch where no pair production reaction is allowed. At the Planck epoch, we are not at the initial singularity. Nevertheless, with the previous definition of time and if there are only photons at the Planck epoch, the notion of time is not defined. I agree that the Planck epoch becomes a singular domain because the geodesics cannot be extended into the past, but we are not at the initial singularity where all values become infinite. Somehow, we "remove" the initial singularity with photons.

              Your question about the continuity of the variables is fundamental. I think, for instance, that the frequency of the photon is a continuous variable (taking all the real values). In the definition of the energy of photons (equation (1) in the essay), there are the quantification with the Planck constant and the continuous variable of the frequency. As said Cristi (see the previous post): "the photon has in its blood the laws of quantum theory and relativity". Nevertheless, I confess that I am in trouble with the problem of masses. In my essay, formula (4) is a definition of masses. If the photon is the primordial particle then (4) is the fundamental definition of masses. I don't see what does it mean physically and I don't see any connection with the Higgs mechanism.

              Emmanuel