• [deleted]

Hi Lev,

1. Glad to see you in the contest.

2. I believe your proposal to "view and represent all "objects" in nature as (irreversible) temporal processes comprised of temporally related events." is the key to progress in how we understand the world.

3. I wish I could "full get" how the detailed block diagram modeled the hydrogen atom, but I think I would need to take your course in "Reality Modeling 101" which I hope you will offer soon.

4. Your blocks and connections reminded me of "Labview" a visual programming language. Labview works on a data flow scheme which may not be that difficult to make into an event driven scheme. I can see various blocks of code "drivers": a. Low level primitives. b. Photons c. Particles d. Atoms e. Molecules f. gasses. g. solids. h. Polymers i. DNA. etc That can be assembled as the user chooses.

This is a very good essay.

Best of Luck.

Don L.

    5 days later

    Hi Don,

    I wanted to welcome you to the contest first, but you bit me to it. ;-) [I'm having a very hard time with my renovations, now a year and half in the making]

    Regarding 3: there is really nothing new there (think of a more precisely depicted Feynman diagram.

    Regarding 4: that's the idea.

    Thanks for you comments!

    Last night I remembered that several days ago I recommended to Ian Durham (on his essay page) R.G. Collingwood's book "The Idea of Nature" (1945), in particular the end of the first chapter. So today I decided to reread this part of the book, and suddenly one important point came to my mind. Before making this point, I would like to share with you the portion of the text that triggered this idea:

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    If an historian had no more means of apprehending events that occupied more than an hour, he could describe the burning down of a house but not the building of a house; the assassination of Caesar but not his conquest of Gaul; ... the performance of a symphony but not its composition. If two historians gave each his own answer to the question: 'What kind of event happen, or can or might happen, in history?' their answers would be extremely different if one habitually thought of an event as something that takes an hour and the other as something that takes ten years; and a third who conceived an event as taking anything up to 1,000 years would give a different answer again.

    ... In general, making things takes longer than destroying them. The shorter our standard time-phase for an historical event, the more our history will consist of destructions, catastrophes, battle, and sudden death. But destruction implies the existence of something to destroy; and as this type of history cannot describe how such a thing came into existence, for the process of its coming into existence was ... too long to be conceived ..., its existence must be presupposed as given, ready-made, miraculously established by some force outside history.

    ... I have quoted late Mr. Sullivan's remark that the second law of thermodynamics applies only from the human point of view and would be unnecessary for an intelligent microbe. ... [A]n intelligent organism whose life had a [much] longer time-rhythm than man's might find it not so much unnecessary as untrue.

    The natural processes that come most easily within ordinary human observation, it may be, are predominantly of a destructive kind, like the historical events that come most easily within the knowledge of the historian who thinks of an event as something that takes a short time. Like such an historian, the natural scientist, it may be, is led by this fact to think of events in nature as in the main destructive: releases or dissipations of energy ...; to think of the natural world as running down like a clock or being shot away like a store of ammunition. ...

    May it not be the same in the world of nature? May it not be the case that the modern picture of a running-down universe, in which energy is by degrees exchanging a non-uniform and arbitrary distribution (that is, a distribution not accounted for by any laws yet known to us, and therefore in effect a given, ready-made, miraculously established distribution ...) for a uniform distribution, according to the second law of thermodynamics, is a picture based on habitual observation of relatively short-phase processes, and one destined to be dismissed as illusory at some future date, when closer attention has been paid to processes whose time-phase is longer? Or even if these long-phase processes should continue to elude human observation, may it not be found necessary to dismiss the same picture as illusory because, according to the principles of evolutionary physics, we shall find ourselves obliged to postulate such processes even though we cannot directly observe them?

    ------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Now I come to one of the main points of my essay: together with Helmholtz and Poincaré, I postulated the processes related to the induction (class generating processes) to be the central/underlying informational processes. In the context of the above quote, they are the main constructive processes in Nature. This postulate also allows for a very direct link between the physical and the mental. Of course, the concrete 'physical' embodiment of such processes is yet to be determined.

    Lev,

    Your summary seemed to look at reality posited in models rather than the universe itself. Can we separate them?

    Jim Hoover

      Hello Jim,

      The reason we cannot deal with the "reality", at least so far, has to do with our inability to approach it directly, without any special "language", or formalism, designed for that purpose.

      In my essay, I suggested that our present difficulties have to do with the fact that the numeric formalism, which has served us for several millennia, has exhausted its usefulness and needs to be replaced by a new formalism which is supposed to capture reality in a much more direct manner.

      Lev,

      One could never say that another's approach is wrong. Certainly mine depends on observed characteristics that models pose or reveal.

      Regards,

      Jim Hoover

      Lev

      Another excellent essay, and still too good a concept to expect any headway against the paradigm, but a top score from me. Perhaps a spectacular success in application is needed. I do have something in mind which originally used a different representational and conceptual structure to the mathematical, and hasn't yet 'hit the streets'. We can discuss if you feel happy with the concept.

      My own essay will provide a hint, the conception also based on moving entities and relationships not numbers. I believe you will also find it rewarding to explore a number of other excellent and consistent essays, such as Edwins, Georginas, Rafael Castel, Constantinos, Robert Spoljaric, and others!

      I'd be honoured for any thoughts on mine, which is mentally testing! but I hope you also find worth a good mark. Do ask about any doubts.

      Best wishes

      Peter

        • [deleted]

        http://www.scienceforums.net/topic/32061-gerardus-t-hooft-doubt-about-power-of-calculus/

          Dear Peter,

          I sincerely appreciate your interest in my essay!!

          I already read your essay and would have commented on it if I felt confident/competent that those will be useful to you.

          I believe your remark that "Perhaps a spectacular success in application is needed." is absolutely correct, and the main reason I participate (for the second time) in these contests is directly related to my hope that some people might be motivated to develop with or without me some "physical" applications of the proposed new form of data representation.

          In fact, *all* I'm proposing is a fundamentally new (structural) form of data representation in science.

          Best wishes,

          --Lev

          Thank you, Yuri, for pointing to the quotes by Feynman (in your essay page) and 't Hooft (in the link) supporting my doubts regarding the applicability of the logic of calculus to physics (the second paragraph of section 3 in my essay).

          Lev

          Thanks. I see your work as a little more important fundamentally, as a tool that can avoid the limitations of other tools.

          As someone who can think non mathematically, can you tell me this ref my essay, (if you can remember or have time to check.) If we say the 'problem' is to explain how a constant speed of light is measured by all moving observers, does it understandably explain how this can be achieved with a quantum mechanism?

          If successful, this should lead to the success I referred to.

          Peter

          10 days later
          • [deleted]

          Lev,

          Okay, here goes. No pressure about the ratings -- I rated you a long time ago and you know I marked you high. Time for the commentary I promised.

          Having spent several years now studying your work, and corresponding with you, I remain convinced that this is very important work -- and unfortunately, probably far ahead of its time. I wish that pattern recognition algorithms were sufficiently advanced for a proof of concept, but I don't think they are.

          All I can say at the moment is that I still agree in principle with the identity between time and information, and the independence of semantics and syntax. I think this all converges on my view of general self organization. My head is still into classical computation, though, and into the possibilities that quantum computing might bring.

          Be assured that I will follow the progress of your group as I am able, and I hope you put me on the mailing list for any significant breakthrough!

          (House remodeled to your satisfaction now? :-) )

          All best,

          Tom

            Tom,

            Thank you for your interest!

            By the way, I now believe that "the independence of semantics and syntax" in a formalism might be the main source of our scientific troubles. To avoid fulling ourselves, the formalism must be absolutely transparent: syntax = semantics.

            My renovations are still ongoing. ;-(

            I'm glad you are doing reasonably well in the rating.

            My best wishes to you

            Sorry, obviously, I meant "fooling" instead of "fulling". ;-)

            This is what twelve hours a day of renovations can do to my English. ;-)

            • [deleted]

            Hi Lev,

            I knew what you meant. :-) I haven't been out to Canada's east coast since 1979, where in Halifax I took immediately to the taste of the local Ten Penny Ale. Mmmmm. Do they still brew it? The rocky coast is majestic and beautiful.

            Hope you're not working yourself into exhaustion. I know that renovation is one of those things that feel so much better when it's over.

            Re semantics = syntax, I will look closer and hopefully be able to convince myself that it's not a return philosophically to the Logical Positivism school.

            All best,

            Tom

            Dear Lev

            I have enjoyed your essay very much. You point a very interesting fact and is how our conception of the continuum through points is based on the notion of limit. On my essay I try to explain how this conception of limit and others are just the tools that allow classical logic work on our conception of reality. Once we remove the excluded middle from our logic, concepts like limits, closed sets etc. loose their meaning and our continuum recover its relational character. We can keep then a lot of the richness of our classical formalism but getting the powerful relational character that you propose. I wonder what kind of logic governs the models you proposed, I think my ideas can be useful to you, I find particularly interesting your new conception of the Peano axioms I think it could have a closed relation with the models I propose. I would like to hear your opinions about it.

            Regards,

            J. Benavides

              Hi John,

              Thank you for your interst in the essay!

              First, I should mention that I believe in the priority of (object or data) representation in science over any logical considerations: the latter should follow the "logic" of the chosen representation, i.e.logic should emerge during our "manipulation" of data.

              Regrettably, the concept of representation emerged basically outside natural sciences (and was driven by CS applications), mainly because mathematics has not yet addressed it (and that is why it has been developed properly).

              It took me some time to gradually realize that when replacing "point" representation by a structural representation, you get a much richer "geometry", because of the much richer variety of various path between two entities (just look at the variety of paths between two strings over a finite alphabet under deletion, insertion, and substitution operations).

              I am familiar with category theory, but I felt that the concept of category is useful under the conventional mathematical (point) representation. What would be necessary in the "structural" mathematics is not yet clear to me: in the conventional math one has to seek (and build) various math. structure "outside" the (point) representation itself, since such numeric representations are too "simple". So the "structural" math. in view of very rich natural data structure, there is much less pressure to seek it in a manner similar to the conventional math.

              I will comment on your essay shortly, in your essay's page.

              Dear Lev,

              Your essay offers a fascinating analysis of why science has historically viewed nature as spatial and continuous. I very much enjoyed your methodical account of how spatial measurement has served as a core of mathematics, and how we may need to re-examine our assumptions. Well written and developed!

              Best wishes,

              Paul

              Paul Halpern, The Discreet Charm of the Discrete