Is Relativity the Holy Grail of Physics? by Robert Spoljaric

Hello dear Robert Spoljaric,

Congratulations for this rationalism and pragmatism.

Best Regards

Steve

Dear Peter,

Forgive me and please allow me to elaborate on what I said to you previously.

My approach to physics is to begin with foundations. Undermine the foundations and no harm done. If this cannot be done, then it seems more rational to begin with those foundations and work our way up to a theory. Thus, for me to comment (with any certainty) on a particular theory requires I intimately familiarise myself with that theory, and then work my way backwards to those foundations. However, it unrealistic for me to become intimately familiar with every theory, in order to see if they are consistent with these foundations. And that is the reason I hesitate to comment on any theory!

I admire both you and Dr. Klingman, and at the risk of contradicting what I said above, I will make a general comparison between his approach and mine.

Dr. Klingman assumes a 'primordial field,' and then seeks to derive all the laws of physics from the 'primordial field' itself. If successful it would be the realisation of Einstein's 'vision' of a Unified Field Theory. And if not then the assumption remains just that.

On the other hand my approach is different in that both 'the Light' and the 'Equivalence Identity' are synthetic a priori! (Kant is no doubt smiling.) Thus, it is from these synthetic a priori propositions that the 'propositions correlating with our sense experiences have yet to be derived.'

I hope that has cleared up my position for you, and leave you with these words from Einstein:

"[S]omething general will have to be said... about the points of view from which physical theories may be analyzed critically... The first point of view is obvious: the theory must not contradict empirical facts... The second point of view is not concerned with the relationship to the observations but with the premises of the theory itself, with what may briefly but vaguely be characterized as the `naturalness' or `logical simplicity' of the premises (the basic concepts and the relations between these)... We prize a theory more highly if, from the logical standpoint, it does not involve an arbitrary choice among theories that are equivalent and possess analogous structures... I must confess herewith that I cannot at this point, and perhaps not at all, replace these hints by more precise definitions. I believe, however, that a sharper formulation would be possible."

--Einstein, "Autobiographical Notes", originally published in Schilpp, Albert Einstein, Philosopher-Scientist, 1949, and reprinted as a separate book in 1979.

Keep well,

Robert

Dear Steve,

Thanks for the compliment.

Cheers,

Robert

Hello,

A real pleasure to read your posts dear Robert and the words of Einstein,in fact he wrote in a very beautiful simplicity about truths.

....I love"....the theory must not contradict empirical facts...."SO ESSENTIAL!!!!

Like what the realism and its pure objectivity can dance with subjectives extrapolations....if and only if these subjectives analyzes are consistent and rational in their pure conclusions.

Best

Steve

Hello Steve,

I am happy you enjoy my writing. Perhaps it's fortunate that I am an 'outsider' and also not particularly smart, that is, I am a slow learner and it would take me a lot of time to master the mathematics needed to intelligently comment on the other essays.

Speaking of mathematics, consider that it is not even certain what mathematics will be needed to correctly express 'the Light' in a fully detailed theory. For example, Newton's definition of momentum can be differentiated to give Newton's Second Law, and similarly the classical relativistic momentum (using mass) can also be differentiated to give a 'relativistic Second Law'. However, the same cannot be said of the non-classical (discontinuous) relativistic momentum (with Planck's constant). Later we find that Newton's Second Law 'disappears'. Thus, from the viewpoint of this new 'paradigm' the concept of force is meaningless as is the concept of mass. Therefore, if my 'theory' is correct, then it mutually excludes every theory that does use the concept of force and/or mass. I am therefore at a loss to comment on any theory that makes use of those (defunct) concepts, or assumes classical calculus must be used to express the universe mathematically!

It is also hard, if not impossible, for me to convey what 'the Light' is verbally - unlike say Newton's 'laws' of motion - and so either the reader 'sees the Light' or they don't. I assume that is the reason for Dr. Klingman's reaction, and kind comments.

The history of physics would have been very different if Einstein had discovered both 'the Light' and the 'Equivalence Identity,' for everything he needed was in place for him to do so.

Cheers,

Robert

Hello Steve,

You are correct, realism is satisfied by the objectivity of both the Light and Equivalence Identity. The reason is of course because they inevitably follow on and thus inherit those attributes from Classical Physics.

I would just like to clarify the point about verbalising the Light: it is impossible to SIMPLY convey what 'the Light' is verbally, that is, to try and verbally express its 'beauty.' If you are not a physicist, then perhaps you should be!

Cheers,

Robert

Hello Robert,

You are welcome..

A beautiful thread, good luck in this contest.

I like your perception , verbalistic, of light.

This light is so spiritual in fact.

This light becomes mass in times space spherization in my humble opinion.

Regards

Steve

Hello Steve,

Something to amuse you. Einstein said he wanted to know God's thoughts, and the Bible tells us that God said, 'Let there be Light!'

Regards,

Robert

Peter,

That 2 2=? question you asked has something to do with a conservation law that nobody has ever talked about, conservation of cycles and degrees. I think I can get relativity to fall out of Doppler frequency shift. The idea is still percolating, so if it doesn't make sense right now, it's ok. But if it does make sense, then you three braniacs (Robert, Edwin and you) might beat me to the punch. Somehow, the photon energy E=hf should fall right into our laps because space-time is all about phase angles and frequency. Photons are about cycles per second. I can't make out the concept... yet.

Robert,

Your momentum and energy equations p=hfc^2/(c^2-v^2), the ones that you derived from the DeBroglie wavelength, those will plug right into time dilation. I have to go to work so I won't be able to work on it today.

Edwin didn't seem to like my humorous comment that God created the Big Bang by borrowing the energy from the quantum vacuum, E_BB (-E_BB), and converting the anti energy -E_BB into U_GR, the negative energy of gravity, U_GR. I told him that (W^1)(W)=1 are two operators. I said that God used W^-1 to operate on -E_BB to get U_GR, which is space-time itself. God would have kept W which would be his back door into our universe.

But that may or may not be necessary, I'm not sure. But the energy of the Big Bang should still cancel the energy of gravity.

Hello Jason,

I think you mean the 'generalised Compton wavelength' rather than 'de Broglie wavelength.' Also it is unnecessary to assume time-dilation if you think of the 'frequency of matter' as a clock. For now, relative to an observer as v approaches c, E approaches infinity, and frequency approaches 0. I do not like to speculate, and would rather let the physics be derived, but since you are thinking in terms of frequency you may like to consider extending the idea to hypothetical black hole 'singularities.' In this case the singularity is a point where E is infinite, and frequency is 0 - 'matter' is destroyed, and only 'un-manifested' infinite energy remains. Further, since 'the Light' shows symmetry between matter and antimatter, presumably the same should hold true for antimatter - a 'Penrose diagram?'

Regarding questions about the Big Bang, here is one: Assuming the Big Bang occurred, is the energy responsible for the Big Bang, the same energy responsible for the frequency of 'matter' now?

I like Edwin (Dr. Klingman), and I am pretty certain he has a sense of humour, and so for the fun of it, I quote (if I remember correctly) the following Biblical reference: In the beginning (before the Big Bang?) God said 'Let there be Light!'

Regards,

Robert

Dear Robert,

To be honest, I totally forgot about Compton or DeBroglie wavelength. The idea that particles are just wave-functions with photons trapped inside is probably the kind of creativity that Steve was referring to. By using a funny little neumonic trick, I can manipulate difficult concepts more easily.

I looked at the Compton wavelength and noticed the derivaiton that's been clattering around my head for a while.

[math]E=hf=\frac{hc}{\lambda}=mc^2[/math]

Only, what I did was I rearranged it to get,

[math]m = \frac{hf}{c^2}[/math]

Then, I borrowed Newtons force equation, which might be illegal because I'm mixing Classical with quantum mechancis.

I made the impassioned argument that photon velocity does not change in a gravity field, but that frequency does change. So I popped off the

[math]\frac{d}{dt}[/math]

and basically derived what I call the Shift Photon Equation,

[math]F=\frac{hdf}{cdt}[/math]

It looks like an analogue to the Newtonian force equation, but it's for photon frequency.

The reason that time dilation is actually important is because gravity produces time dilation. So I argued that there will a time dilation experienced by a photon that travels from A to B. Assuming A and B are time dilation, then the frequency change obeys,

[math]T_B = \frac{T_A f_A}{T_B}[/math]

To make a long story short, these two seemingly unrelated derivations suggested to me that it might be possible to build a gravity beam or a tractor beam.

In your completely honest opinion, does my argument suggest that maybe someone should run the experiment to see if it really is a tractor beam?

Hello Jason,

Many years ago I saw a story about a 'tractor beam' that was inadvertently discovered by a researcher trying to use light to power nano-technology. The story was on a science show called "Quantum" on ABC in Australia.

The details are hazy, but I seem to remember something about the light not only rotating the nano-cog (or whatever it was) but also 'attracting' it. Whether or not other researchers have been able to reproduce those results, I don't know. I wish I could be more specific, but I think the researcher was (at the time) at the University of Queensland in Australia.

I do not like to criticise your creativity and ingenuity, and I am definitely not qualified to answer your question. As such, I can only comment from the perspective of my essay. What I said above should encourage you to pursue your idea, but my essay shows you should (at least) reconsider your use of Newton's Second Law.

Remember, Einstein dreamed of the day quantum mechanics would give way to a deterministic theory (God does not play dice). In terms of foundations that day has come, as far as I am concerned. Follow your dream, and do not let anyone tell you 'impossible,' until they can explicitly tell you why!

"I have a dream!"

Robert

Thanks it's cool, indeed....we see in the stars, the words of God ....in the rotations of spheres,his hopes, in our quantum spheres his heart .....we are humble walkers after all, catalyzers of the universal sphere....we can imply some exponentials, relevant in an evolutive complementarity of our environments and their tools.All these creations around us are so incredibles, and we are still at the begining....you imagine the future universal sphere and all its intrinsic interactions.Fascinating and the word is weak.It exists so many creations, so many lifes everywhere inside our Universal sphere.The present improves and the future evolves.......it's the future, the sphere and its spheres.....the otpimization is so important, that permits the sorting.

Regards

Steve

ps the maths aren't difficult ,you know it's just a language, thus of course it's not the number of words, signs or methods which are important ....but the real understanding of universal maths.You know the maths even for an other planet, with others creations,with other language,...shall be always the maths. The primes are the primes, the numbers are the numbers......here and everywhere in the universe , 1 is 1 .....it's just a kind of writing and interpretation.All people can invent a method in simply seeing the world around.....when newton has invented his equation about gravity,he simply writes his observations,The apple falls down, there is a distance between the apple, a spheroids hihihi, and the earth, an other spheroid,....and hop a constant and hop an equation of simple observation.....there and it's a secret, we can extrapolate with my spheres and mvV ...THUS AND IMPROVEMENT OF THE NEWTON LAW OF GRAVITATION BETWEEN TWO SPHERES....MORE THEIR ENTANGLEMENT OF SPHERES FOR THE FRACTAL.

PS We are all uniques, precious.....all complementaries,....if the vanity and others stupidities aren't inserted of course as others chaotic parameters.

What is the real intelligence if we take the sacred writings, just the fact to reject the bad, the evil.And the sincere desire of learning about love.......

Regards

Steve

Dear Robert,

I do appreciate your encouragement as well as your honesty.

R: "... you should (at least) reconsider your use of Newton's Second Law"

R: "...quantum mechanics would give way to a deterministic theory (God does not play dice). In terms of foundations that day has come,..."

If you were God, and you created the universe, wouldn't you leave yourself a cleverly disguised back door so that you could get back in if you wanted to? The Uncertainty Principle and appearance of dice might be a disguised back door. If so, then the physics community will not be able to produce a fully deterministic theory, not without bumping into God first.

As for Newton's equation, what do you call it when somebody comes along and writes down the frequency analogue to F = ma, and argues it both algebraically, and also on the grounds of (1) time dilation and (2) Doppler redshift?

Hello Jason,

Once again I have been hasty in my reply.

I hope not to alienate you with my comments, so please forgive me for my bluntness.

The foundations in my 'theory' are deterministic, but I have no doubt that probabilites and statistics will be used. For example, Bose derived Planck's Law by thinking of the radiation within the cavity as a photon gas. In terms of my essay , therefore, his was the first 'legitimate' derivation of Planck's Law.

My 'paradigm' of physics is different, and so I am not qualified to comment on your Shift Photon Equation, for you use concepts that do not apply. For example, Newton's Second Law is defunct in a 'massless' universe. Therefore, the 'F' in your Shift Photon Equation is meaningless. Instead, acceleration is accounted for by the 'equivalence identity' (a=g), which relates it to gravity. Finally, 'the Light' applies to matter and radiation, and cannot be mathematically differentiated, which necissitates using a=g to account for relative acceleration.

You should not give up on your idea, you may just need to think in terms of a different paradigm.

Please let me know what you think.

Robert

Hi Steve,

"He who seeks, know not. He who knows, seeks not" - Lao Tzu.

Perhaps we have an innate desire to know reality, and escape all illusions.

The question then is: What is reality?

The quote by Lao Tzu suggests that 'reality' cannot be expressed, only experienced. The Buddha also told his disciples not to waste time in idle speculation. The ego may be powerless to know reality as it is, that is, without some kind of symbolic representation. And if 'ultimate reality' is beyond all symbols, then science is preoccupied with studying an illusion! Will science ever reach the conclusion that reality, as presented to us by our physical senses, is an illusion, that is, our physical senses are deceiving us?

All the best to you Steve,

Robert

Hi Robert,

You're a good guy and your bluntness helps me to see what's really happening. I just finished responding to someone's argument against my point of view.

If you can find what they wrote,

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=28724&st=135&#entry476630

Where they said,

"F ~ (G M h f)/(c²R² − 2 G M R) ≈ (G M / R² )(h f /c²) = g (h f / c²)

which Pound and Rebka described the frequency change mechanism giving this value as the "appearant weight of the photon" in 1960."

My rebuttal is at,

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=28869&st=0&#entry477913

Which is all to complicating to find. In a nutshell, Repenner is arguing that a bunch of physicists decided that,

[math]m=\frac{hf}{c^2}[/math]

means that the mass is different for different observers, and that's too hard. So they wrote,

[math]m = \sqrt{\frac{E^2}{c^4}-{\frac{p^2}{c^2}}} [/math]

and figured they would all be dead before anyone noticed or had the audacity to question it.

When you're solving for mass, your solving for all the mass. You're not hiding some mass in the momentum term so its nice and constant for all observers.

No wonder Relativity doesn't make sense. :-D

Hello Jason,

I am happy you wrote back, as I seem to be making a lot of 'enemies' with my posts. Honestly, I would have preferred to keep my opnions to myself, and let the paper speak for itself. Alas, the temptation to get a reaction from the 'experts' is sometimes too great. But I am trying to be stronger!

You are correct, mass is replaced by angular frequency in the relativistic Light. In fact, you can use the generalised Compton wavelength as a 'bridge' to go from the classical to the non-classical expressions. Ultimately, that must be done, for taking the derivation to its logical conclusion (a=g)leaves no mass at all!

Of course, you know I cannot agree with that second expression using mass.

Why waste time arguing with others. You are an imaginative person, who likes technology, and so here is something to distract you. How do particle ACELERATORS work if a=g? Does that not suggest that charged particles are being ACCELERATED due to electomagnetism warping space-time, that is, electro-gravity?

All the best,

Robert