• [deleted]

Dan,

I realize quasars present an age/stage issue, there are any number of other, macro-phenomena, such as the "axis of evil," which do ask ever larger question that we doubtfully will ever get full answers to. That doesn't necessarily mean this validates an expanding, or cyclically expanding universe over a steady state one, because there could well be much larger processes at work, which would cause cycles of quasars to occur relatively simultaneously.

The issues I have with current cosmology are varied and I don't fully stand behind any explanation. I simply would like the issues I see as meriting questioning have some response before I fully agree with them. Let's say that Big Bang theory was a savings bond. While the cosmological community would put a triple A rating on it, I would view it as speculative at best.

It would seem to me that at such a ratio, space would have an appreciable curvature.

John,

I appreciated your correspondence. My model is so new that it is uncertain if it will pass scrutiny and the test of time. I had much more to include, and it may seem somewhat off topic, since I had to severely cut my original rough draft which ran over 60,000 characters. You might say that my essay had it's character assassinated ;)

Still, it is my hope that the ideas resonate with the judges, since it appears to solve many issues including: the formation of structure problem, gives an alternative hypothesis for DM (which can be checked using only GR and computer simulations), eliminates the singularity as the point (or event) at which all of the laws of physics breakdown, and it should be tested against the data that lead to the DE hypothesis, of which I am currently working. It may not be the model that you would choose, but I still believe it is a big step in the right direction.

  • [deleted]

Dan,

Nice job. Althugh I cannot offhand discern how the results of your graphic method differ from those of more conventional tools (e.g., Minkowski lightcones for time-event analysis, Poincare recurrence for system dynamics), I appreciate very much your emphasis on the philosophical foundation of general relativity in Mach's Principle, a term coined by Einstein himself. It shows an understanding of the real physics as contrasted to the rootless speculation that often dominates these forums.

Einstein always recognized the cosmological problem. In Mach's mechanics, the world is finite and bounded. Einstein transformed that into a model that is finite and unbounded -- therefore adding the dimension of nonlocal curvature that frees inertial effects from dependence on "action at a distance," in favor of locality. And that's another point that you obviously understand deeply, for one cannot connect to an idea of hypersurface without going through the geometry of spherical coordinates in contrast to the flat Euclidean spacetime we apparently inhabit.

That said, and though I generally agree with your approach and I agree that avoiding the singularity is desirable (indeed, quantum gravity is not conceivable otherwise), I think your statement of "FPC" is far too weak to be useful in any technical sense. It is, in fact, only a restatement of Mach's mechanics and doesn't go beyond, as Einstein did with general relativity. I would drop the FPC entirely, and focus on the relationship between Black Hole thermodynamics and quantum mechanics, a la Hawking.

My $.02.

Tom

Tom,

Thanks, for your comments. The two pillars of my model are the FPC and primary role that BH's have in evolution and the very definition of the cosmos. With the FPC, we have a principle with which to define more than just motion, such as the very nature of existence. "A physical property only has meaning only in relation to universe as a whole". It frees us from having to use GR globally, which has only been tested locally.

My graphical method has also freed us from the conventional tools, which are difficult at best to work with, and shows how the nature of BHs from the "cosmic perspective" differs from conventional theory.

I believe the FLRW models fail because they assume that the universe's geometry is simply connected. The HBCS model is neither simply connected nor multiply connected in the traditional sense, but something altogether different. New maths may be needed. Besides as they say "a picture's worth a thousand words" (I'm not sure how many math symbols that equates to).

There was mounting evidence for DM, long before Vera Rubin published her results showing the flat rotation curves of galaxies, which is historically viewed as the definitive evidence in favor of DM. Something about her graphs "leapt to the eye" and caught the attention of the community. Of course, her graphs were empirical evidence, mine are just based on principle and reasoning. I'm the first to admit that this model needs a more rigorous treatment, but I'm fairly satisfied with the results and implications so far. This is just the beginning. The hard work is yet to done.

Dan

    • [deleted]

    Mach's mechanics also assumes a simply connected universe (finite, bounded). If you're departing from that assumption, you have one more reason to drop FPC. I honestly don't grasp what value you think that it adds.

    Tom

    Tom,

    The FPC limits the interpretation of the equivalence principle to the exterior and ultimately the boundary of the BH. The orthodox interpretation allows a dual existence, at least temporarily, for a test particle that "falls into" the BH. For exterior observers, the test particle ends up and remains at the boundary until the end of the universe. From the test particles' frame of reference, it passes the event horizon and continues falling ultimately ending in an unknown state at the singularity. This is a paradox! The FPC removes the paradox, since the particle's very existence is defined only w.r.t. the rest of universe, which is the exterior of the BH and its boundary. This doesn't negate the equivalence principle, since at the boundary, the test particle remains in a locally timeless state and experiences nothing, that is until it's energy is eventually liberated by a extremely long period of cosmic expansion. Without the FPC, we have dual existence and unknown states. With the FPC, everything has a unique existence and the singularity is understood as just a point in cosmic time. The remains of the star interior to and immediately after the horizon is formed, exists in a new set of expanding spacetimes, with the BH's event horizon equivalent to the cosmic horizon in their infinite future.

    Dan

    • [deleted]

    Dan,

    The equivalence principle (between gravitational and inertial mass) is classical. The effect of a particle crossing the black hole horizon, so that to a distant observer it appears frozen on the horizon, is not a paradox but the result of the known phenomenon of time dilation. It eventually takes infinite time for the image of the frozen particle to reach the outside observer.

    The restatement of Mach's Principle that you call FPC is superfluous to the classical explanation of relativistic spacetime effects in Einstein's relativity. Yes, Mach was the true relativist, but that's precisely why his philosophy is wrong -- Einstein's absolutism, with the incorporation of the constant speed of light into a mathematically complete theory, makes gravity a local theory. Mach's philosophy and yours begs action at a distance.

    Saying that something exists only because the rest of the universe exists isn't really a scientific claim, is it?

    Tom

    Tom,

    Hopefully this helps:

    The FPC is an extension of Leibniz's relational philosophy (on which Mach's principle is based) that has fundamental physical implications. It is not a scientific claim, since it cannot be verified directly by experiment, only its implications are verifiable. (BTW continuation across the event horizon cannot be verified either, it's just the accepted interpretation within the current framework.) The FPC is philosophically appealing because it insists that we precisely define physical properties and events and that relationships are logically consistent. It allows us to define cosmic spacetime, without resorting to the a priori global application of GR, which is a local theory, and has only been proven on the local scale. I'm not claiming that GR is wrong (in fact it must be correct for the model to be valid), only the interpretation that allows continuation across the event horizon.

    Since the FPC has physical implications and is philosophically more appealing, the resulting HBCS Cosmology deserves our attention and scrutiny. The implications are far reaching and profound as they relate to our conceptual understanding of the formation of structure, DE (which was not covered in the essay), and in particular, DM. DM has been and is currently still thought of (by most of the community) as a particle physics problem. The HBCS model claims that the observations that lead to the DM hypothesis are a general relativistic effect and can be understood using only GR in the given background. This is would be a major breakthrough if it can be proven correct. Thus, the implications of the HBCS model will be the ultimate test of whether the FPC is valid and useful.

    So we have a new model, in which singularities can be understood, and if proven correct, will seamlessly resolve many of the open questions in cosmology and astrophysics. I would say that not allowing continuation across the event horizon is a small price to pay, especially since we're not really giving up anything substantial. The equivalence principle is still valid up to the event horizon, which is defined by the model to be a closed (inclusive) local boundary of the universe in the present era. So, if the model's implications hold up to scrutiny after comparison to super computer simulations and the empirical evidence, we have made much progress in our understanding of the universe.

    Dan

      • [deleted]

      Dan,

      "Relational" and "relativity" are not the same thing. Mach's relativity is a physical dynamic which purports to explain the origin of inertia as identical to the origin of mechanics. IOW, motion is primary. Einstein incorporated the absolute speed of light into Mach's mechanics to show that motion is not primary, but that rest states are relative and therefore all physics is local, since relative rest states beg observer dependence.

      To speak of things in relation requires no physics at all.

      Tom

      Tom,

      We're in the domain where philosophy meets physics, the playground where truly fundamental physics takes place! FPC leads to a model that has physical consequences, so new physics is required, but not immediate. I don't know if you've read Kip Thorne's "Black Holes and Time Warps". It"s mostly about the history of BH physics, except for the last few chapters, which are worth the price of the entire book. In particular, Ch. 11 entitled "What is Reality?" is a gem. In this chapter, he writes about the the different paradigms physicists use to solve, in this case, problems and questions regarding BH physics.

      He defines a paradigm as "a complete set of tools that the community of scientists uses in its research on some topic, and in communicating the results of its research to others." The three paradigms used in BH research are the warped spacetime paradigm (of which most everyone is familiar), the flat spacetime paradigm, and the membrane paradigm. Some problems are more easily solved using one paradigm over the other due to the suitability of the mathematical formalisms or the intuitive pictures that guide the calculations. Each of the paradigms is completely equivalent (here's the kicker) "so long as one restricts attention to the hole's exterior". The mathematical results of the MP differs from that of the WSP on the interior of a BH. This is a clue the something not quite right. Two separate math formalisms, representing the same physical laws, giving consistent results exterior to the hole, but inconsistent results interior the hole.

      The FPC is actually aligned philosophically with the FSP. In case your not familiar, the FSP, "is based on three sets of laws: a law describing how matter, in a flat spacetime, generates the gravitational field; laws describing how that field controls the shrinkage of perfect rulers and the dilation of the ticking rates of perfect clocks; and laws describing how the gravitational field controls the motions and fields through flat spacetime." So this paradigm differs from the WSP on the interior of the BH also, since at the horizon the radial dimension of the perfect ruler shrinks to zero and the ticking rate of the perfect clock dilates to infinity.

      So where is the new physics required? It is probably required locally at the horizon (this is where QG needs to be developed), but is definitely required at the beginning of the universe (of the present cycle according to HBCS Cosmology), and in the descriptions and understanding of DM and DE, and the icing on the cake is that the singularity is no longer incomprehensible. New physics is compulsory since HBCS Cosmology differs from the Standard Model.

      Allowing continuation across the event horizon is based on a belief that the WSP is the true nature of reality, even though it cannot be proven to be. I believe the FSP is the true nature of reality, and I think, I've given compelling reasons why it should be considered as such. More importantly, if the HBCS model aligns with the empirical observations and detailed calculations, that would be evidence for the FSP, validate the evocation of the FPC, and contribute to a vastly more complete picture of our cosmos.

        • [deleted]

        Yes, I have Kip Thorne's book. This isn't about paradigms, nor about the alleged intersection of physics with philosophy. It's about the difference between physics and philosophy.

        Einstein took Mach's philosophy of a finite and bounded universe, and converted it to the physics of a finite and unbounded universe. If you want your universe to be bounded at the black hole horizon, you're doing physics and your FPC is superfluous. If you want your model to be bounded at the interior of the black hole, you're doing philosophy.

        Tom

        Tom,

        Yes, the universe is bounded locally at the black hole horizon. Thus, as a boundary, everything exterior to it, including the boundary itself ( it is a closed boundary) belongs to the universe, everything interior to the boundary is subject to speculation, since there can be no experiment or observation conducted there that can be conveyed to the exterior. One can choose the prevalent view of the WSP, that the horizon is just empty curved space and an observer falling toward a large enough BH would not experience anything unusual, or one can choose to believe the view from the MP, and the the observer would experience an electrically charged membrane at the horizon, or finally one can choose to believe the FSP and that the horizon is where space, time, matter, and energy are poorly defined. So for now, the interior of the BH is a matter for philosophy.

        Now, remember that I used the FPC to also define cosmic time and hence cosmic spacetime, which are not really new concepts either, except I was able to define them without reference to GR, a local theory. GR is viewed as fundamental and it is natural to want to use it to understand the global aspects of the universe, but what if it's a false assumption that GR applies globally? It may or may not. This is why I believe the my method is a more fundamental procedure to build a cosmological model. It relies only on simple definitions and relationships and assumes GR is valid on the local scale, the scale of which it has been tested most thoroughly.

        Finally, when we allow cosmic time to approach infinity, the null surface through cosmic time approach the surface of the hypersphere. Once again, this is where space, time, matter, and energy are all poorly defined. The cosmic horizon in the infinite future is indistinguishable from the horizon of the interior of the BH. Is this philosophy or a conclusion based on a physical model? You say that the FPC is superfluous. I say it is a guiding principle that lead to a unique model.

        If DM is found to be the result of a general relativistic effect and not a particle physics problem, if DE and inflation are better understood, and if the formation of structure is determined to result from the transition of BHs at the singularity and re-transition at the SLS, then I guess I won't care if the FPC is deemed unnecessary. For these are examples where the physics needs to be developed.

        Dan

          • [deleted]

          Dan,

          The whole purpose of general relativity is to preserve locality ("All physics is local") and therefore eliminate the problem in Newtonian physics of "action at a distance." GR isn't expected to apply globally -- the reason that we think it does, is under an assumption that the laws of physics are uniform throughout the universe. You don't seem to be saying anything different -- so why add a superfluous assumption?

          I'm trying to understand what value you think you derive from assuming an "FPC" which, as I said, is just a restatement of Mach's Principle. I don't see the value. Indeed, taking it prima facie, it is a step back to a universe finite and bounded, which invalidates the basis of general relativity.

          Tom

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          If we consider universe to be a set of continuous events, space and time are just coordinates of these events, singularity is the only absolute eventless state and hence does not require any coordinates. At the heart of all things is this singularity and this can be experienced by us if we choose to. Death to a person is like a black hole to a star, when one dies, another one is born. We are the universe our self. Our inner most self, which we call I is the singularity. I or singularity does not age and has no boundaries.

            Tom,

            Let me quote from the introduction of Lee Smolin's, Life of the Cosmos : "Even the simple act of describing where something is, or when something happened, involves implicit reference to the rest of the world. Because of this, all the theories that describe parts of the world actually need the rest of the world in order to make complete sense." This is the FPC in a nutshell. It is nothing new, it does not undermine GR, I just see the need to elevate this basic concept to the status of a principle, mainly due to the misunderstanding of the nature of time. The warped (no pun intended) view of spacetime has allowed all sorts of "fantasical" unphysical solutions to Einstein's equations and are taken seriously because the physicist that discovered the solution, and those who take it seriously, forgot that "parts of the world actually need the rest of the world in order to make complete sense." They are looking only at the mathematics and not the context. The FPC may be superfluous to the classical explanation of relativistic spacetime effects of Einstein's relativity, but not to the context of that explanation.

            Dan

            Sridattadev,

            Thanks, for your comments. I have a question for you. If our inner most self does not age and has no boundaries, why is it that we find ourselves in our present state? For if we are truly eternal, omniscient, and omnipotent, shouldn't we have progressed to a state of perfection?

            Dan

            • [deleted]

            Dan,

            The thing is, that taking Mach's principle as Mach formulated it, _does_ undermine general relativity. Since you brought up Smolin, consider this 2005 preprint, particularly p. 8. When Smolin speaks of a relational theory, it is in the context of background independence, not relationalism as a physical principle.

            Dynamic physical relations in Mach assumed acceleration as absolute. In Einstein, the roles played by absolute spacetime and the constant speed of light disallow this assumption.

            Tom

            • [deleted]

            Correction. I meant to say that Mach regarded inertia (motion) as absolute.

            Tom,

            Thanks, for the information on Smolin's preprint. It looks to be a interesting paper. I'll need some time to read and respond. I was without power for 16 hours due to the "storm of the century" and without the internet longer than that. It was not fun. Hopefully, I'll have a response later today.

            Thanks,

            Dan

            • [deleted]

            You're still in Illinois, I take it. You guys got socked a little harder than those of us in the Detroit area, though I enjoyed my snow day away from work. :-)

            16 hours without power! Brrrrr. Hope everyhting is well with you now.

            We have quite some common ground in Smolin's relational philosophy.

            Tom