Dear Tom

Thanks for your very interesting note. Of course at the most basic level everything is related, and more specifically we may think of the physics - i.e. acoustics - of music and even of the musicality of some concepts in physics such as the vibrating strings of String theory. Herschel was a professional musician before turning to astronomy. Further back in time there is Newton's correlating colors with notes and Pythagorus' concepts of number, musical scale and the music of the spheres.

Your own work on Structural Resonance sounds most interesting and I hope to study more about it in detail when you publish the material. Resonance of course is the basis of the first electronic musical instrument invented by Léon Theremin .

Einstein was a gifted violinist (but that does not make him a string theorist). Your quoting his letter to Besso where he wonders if his physics would be meaningful if fields are not continuous is most relevant in the context of this contest. His core discovery in general relativity that gravity and acceleration are one would still be a key result in a digital universe, his protest to the contrary notwithstanding. I have tried to show in my in my earlier 2005 Beautiful Universe paper on which my present fqxi paper is based that GR would be greatly simplified in a digital universe, reduced to the 'optics' of refraction in a medium of variable density.

Best wishes for success in your music and physics! Vladimir

10 days later

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  • Post #18

Dear Vladimir,

I like your ideas, but need to reread them. These spinning tetrahedra also sound closely related to Gingras' magnetic spin ice quasi-particle analogy to Dirac's Magnetic Monople.

This is a post that I left on my thread @ topic #816:

"Hi Steve,

I was at the beach for the last couple of days. It was relaxing to get away. What if the "sphere" is a Buckyball that surrounds the Black Hole "near singularity", and "spinning" tetrahedra (Vladimir Tamari's basic idea - perhaps of red-green-blue-white "color"?) are situated at each of the 60 vertices (of the Carbon-60 Buckyball). This would yield 240 degrees-of-freedom similar to Garrett Lisi's E8 roots, but we would only have 3 dimensions at each of two different scales (the 3-D buckyball scale, and the 3-D tetrahedra scale). I've always liked Buckyballs, and one of the discoverers of Carbon-60, Sir Harry Kroto, lives im my neighborhood.

In case of a rotating Black Hole, the Buckyball symmetry may not be stable enough, and two nested Buckyballs may transform into their homotopic cousin, a lattice-like near-torus (similar to a lattice-like Tokamak) with spinning tetrahedra at each of 120 vertices. This would yield the 480 degrees-of-freedom of a Supersymmetric model similar to Lisi's.

I need to reread Vladimir's essay, and think more on these ideas."

Have Fun!

Dr. Cosmic Ray

Thank you Dr. Cosmic Ray nice to hear from you. I need to rest my eyes for a while after successful cataract surgery. Will answer your interesting points in a week or so. For a full description of my ideas (with buckyballs included) please read my earlier 2005 Beautiful Universe paper on which my present fqxi paper is based. Lisi's E8 far too complex than need be. A few years ago I emailed Dr. Kroto asking whether a buckyball constructed of dipole "rods" has a weak spot due to Brouwer's theorem (it says a vector field on a sphere always has a vortex) but no answer. More later.

Cheers Vladimir

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    • Post #20

    Hi Vladimir,

    You asked "whether a buckyball constructed of dipole "rods" has a weak spot due to Brouwer's theorem".

    My guess is that IF the buckyball has a weak spot due to Brouwer's theorem, then this weak spot would be part of a hexagon. Clearly, the pentagons have the wrong symmetry for this type of instability, but if a Buckyball is orientated similarly to Figure 2 of The Nature of Dimensions, then it might have a weak spot (and this weak spot might be partially responsible for inducing a triality of generations). If a sphere collapses due to this instability, then the natural new shape would be toroidal. Two nested Buckyballs are homotopic to a torus, so I anticipate that this new toroidal "lattice" should have the equivalent of 120 Carbon sites (although this "lattice" is comprised of the very fabric of Spacetime near the Black Hole "singularity", and not actual Carbon atoms - the same concept as Subir Sachdev's graphene analogy [Reference 12 of the above linked paper] to the Holographic Principle). If we place a spinning tetrahedron at each of those 120 sites, then we may have as many as 480 degrees of freedom on the surface of our torus (plus the frame degrees of freedom), which may be related to an E8xE8*~SO(32) TOE of order 496.

    I especially like the pentagon symmetries of the Buckyball (and my TOE), because these pentagon/pentagram symmetries lead to the possible application of the Golden Ratio, as experimentally determined by Coldea et al [Reference 6 of the above linked paper], and as pictorially represented by the appendix figure in my essay.

    Have Fun & may your eyes continue to heal!

    Dr. Cosmic Ray

    Thank you Ray for your response and wishes. If Brouwer's theorem (also called the hairy-ball theorem because you cannot comb a hairy ball without leaving a vortex) causes a weak joint to exit in polihedra, this may well be the cause of decay in subatomic particles.

    I will have to re-read your essay and your answers soon. I think we both have the right faith that polyhedral arrangements are the key to the construction of matter. Just to clear one point- in my essays I show a figure of a tetrahedron with what appears like rotation vectors. Such a tetrahedron would be made up of two dipoles on opposite sides their vertices making up the shape. The rotation arrows are to show how such a configuration resulted from a homogeneous field of parallel dipoles involving slight twisting of all lattice points all over the universe (weak linkage but all lattice nodes are involved).

    Indeed nested polyhedra are what would make up particles, whether they are C60 or others. This was the conviction of Buckminster Fuller and of Kenneth Snelson. I think these models should work in and of themselves, not grafted onto existing theories such as the Standard Model, GR , SR and QM (as Lisis's E8 does). I tried to show in a rudimentary and mostly qualitative fashion that such a reconstruction of physics is possible. I am having fun indeed!

    Vladimir

    6 days later

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    • Post #22

    Ray, you are going to laugh,It's the Toe fashion ahahahah no but frankly all people has a toe in fact,you are ok with me I am persuaded it's comic in fact.but it's well it's cool to see all that, a toe hihih the war of toes but of course only one is correct ...extradimensions hihih a toe , and the toe of the day is the the theory of polyhedrisation , tomorrow it will be the theory of really everything, and after the next day, the theory of truly everything. hihihi My spherization is 3D is so far but so far ....me and my rationalities ,I am so far.

    Best Regards thinkers

    Steve

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    • Post #23

    Hi all,

    But it's cool to see all these similarities, I am happy that people makes similarities of my spheres and spherization in 3D ...I repeat in 3D...Sill one in 3D....in fact many of these extrapolations are falses, but it's cool.

    Regards

    Steve

    Vladimir,

    I enjoyed reading your essay. You raise many fascinating points about the fundamental nature of reality. Your node idea is very interesting. I like how you draw connections with cellular automata and qubits.

    Best wishes,

    Paul

      Thank you Paul. The idea that my spherically-symmetric node could be a qubit was not too clear to me in my in my earlier 2005 Beautiful Universe (BU) paper on which my present fqxi paper is based. With new understanding I superposed a Bloch Sphere onto a node in the figure in my present fqxi paper and somehow it all seems to clicks together- if so then in theory all of physics must somehow be reduced to the interactions between a local field of nodes. The (BU) theory needs a lot of work of course - I wish it can be simulated. I can imagine the interactions as linkage made up of 'slippery'spherical gears. Slippery because if they are directly linked like mechanical gears a small local motion must instantly activate all nodes in the universe. OK Steve you have your spheres physics in that form :)

      Best wishes

      Vladimir

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      • Post #26

      Vladimir,

      Very nice! Our research shares a common approach. In relation to your eight distinct states of spin rotation, I think you might be interested in my result contained in this preprint, sidebar 1, figure S1.1 in which the closed, congruent (mod 12) Sophie Germain prime sequence shows correspondence between the least separated primes (11, 23) and (1559, 1583); (479, 491) and (7103, 7151). Reversing the polarities of these four points gives eight states.

      Good luck in the essay contest. I hope you find time to read my entry.

      Best,

      Tom

        Dear Tom

        After looking at your fqxi paper and the preprint I must admit to feeling really unqualified to comment on your work, but will read your paper again - your expertise in number theory and sundry other topic is beyond the range of what I have studied. Over the years I would concentrate on learning whatever happens to be the next item necessary for my research and have obviously lots of gaps in my self-education.

        While sincerely admiring the range of your work, I have to disagree that we have a common approach insofar as the physics itself is concerned. I have not claimed to have eight states of spin rotation - the nodes are spherically symmetrical and can rotate at any solid angle, hence the Bloch sphere representation. An eight-fold symmetry can be obtained however if one considers just the 3D geometry of the node location in the universal lattice.

        Good luck to you too and thanks.

        Vladimir

        Vladimir

        An excellent and interesting paper, which I thought I'd commented on earlier but seemingly not, and have just re-read. It confirmed the reasons why I 'bookmarked' it, as I very much agreed with most of your background sections, and there are some close parallels, but then also the odd major divergence, in your beautiful model. Well done and thanks for the interesting view. I'll try to catch up with your papers.

        I hope you'll read mine if you haven't or perhaps we've already communicated there? I believe I may show you a few options to the directions you've gone which you may appreciate considering (if you haven't) as they seem to open the way to falsifiable solutions. You may also enjoy a short 'logical conclusions' paper with photographic evidence!

        There are a number of consistent essays looking very strong and 'real', currently led by Edwin, which you seem to also be very close to (Ragaza, Parry, Spoljaric, Castel, Wittelman etc etc -see strings).

        Best wishes

        Peter

        PS. loved the drawings too.

          Ooops, that was 'Mittleman!', plus Dan Bendict. I'd expect you may like them all. Do give me feedback on mine (if you haven't!) Too many essays and ageing brain cells!

          Peter

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          • Post #30

          :) it's interesting all that.they turn thus they are .....proportional furthermore with the volumes and their rotations....interesting these similarities , interesting.

          Steve

          Dear Peter,

          Thank you for your encouraging comments. As you will see I have now enjoyed re-reading your paper and and commented on it. In the days ahead I will study the papers you recommended. I find that the fqxi forums are not easy to navigate. Other online forums I am a member of have a 'Tracking' link to see all the forums any individual member has participated in listed by date, and with new contributions duly marked as such.

          With best wishes, Vladimir

          Dear Vladimir,

          Thank you for reading my essay. I have just done the same to yours. Your figures and your ideas are beautiful. We agree on some points, such as local realism, and I think we view particles in much the same manner. We also take seriously "Roger Penrose' call to 'start all over'." And we agree, I think, on the need for an 'ether' equivalent. And I think we also agree on Bell's Theorem: I too reject "probability as a real property of particles".

          We are somewhat complementary in our approaches. If I interpret you correctly, you begin with electro-magnetics and 'derive' gravity therefrom. I begin with only a gravitational field and 'condense' locally real particles, including charged particles, which leads to electro-magnetics. Also, although our particles seem related, you place them on a lattice, whereas mine are embedded in a field. Thus there is overlap between our theories, but also points of divergence.

          Peter remarked on 'aging brain cells', so I will remark on your association with Buckminster Fuller. As a teenager growing up in a backwater, all of the 'old people' I knew were 'simple' in that they never said anything that I had not either heard before or thought of before. So I concluded that your mind, like your muscles, degrades with age. But one day I saw Buckminster Fuller (age 76) on TV who said a number of things that I had never thought of! I then realized that one does not have to become simple and predictable with age.

          Keep thinking new thoughts, in honor of Bucky.

          Edwin Eugene Klingman

            Dear Edwin

            Thanks for your kind words about my essay. I could only provide sample concepts of my Beautiful Universe (BU) theory in the fqxi essay, but yes gravity emerges as the twisting of the axes of the nodes as they rotate and influence adjoining node rotation rate and orientation. You probably understood my ideas better than I understood yours because I expressed them by word and figure while you mostly relied more on mathematical physics, not my forte.

            As an inventor (as was Bucky of course) I tried to build in my mind a universal linkage that would function in such a way as to exhibit the experimental results we know from modern physics. Since I am happily outside academia and not accountable to professors, funding restrictions or other guides to keep my imagination in check, I could tweak and crank this system of universal gear-like nodes (maybe I should use another word than 'crank) simplifying it as much as possible, until, to the limits of my understanding, it seems to work. You seems to have done something similar, but using continuous functions instead of 'things', and of course as you say we may well be complementary in our approaches. I need to study your ideas more carefully, also those of others that Peter Jackson has recommended as being 'real'.

            I wonder if it is possible to pool our ideas in some way - I was thinking that fqxi can host a dedicated online wiki-type collaboration whereby invited or otherwise selected like-minded people can hammer out the details of a theory - a participant skilled at computer simulation but who does not know much physics can give a valuable contribution. Others who know a lot of particle physics can suggest configurations of the model. You get the picture.

            I enjoyed your comments ending with "I then realized that one does not have to become simple and predictable with age Keep thinking new thoughts, in honor of Bucky.". True, and will do , sir!

            Best wishes from Vladimir

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            • Post #34

            EUREKA FROM BELGIUM HAHAHAH SPHERES AND THE SPHERE DEAR ALL IT IS THE REALITY.

            Dear Tamari insert the volumes, they are proportionals as the velocities of rot. with mass ....now you must consider that an ultim entanglement possesses a specific finite serie of entangled spheres, where thje center is the biggest spherical volume(as our center of our universal sphere), now you must consider a precise number. In a BEC probably the space, the light, the mass are the same , thus it's these rotations which imply the rule.If now you insert two main senses of rotation , you shall difefrenciate the mass and the light easily.Considering the evolution, you can thus insert the fusion by volumes and the synchro and sortings also, thus the quantum number rests finite for this two stabilities, linear and gravitational.The space doesn't turn logically and the lattices evolve .....thus of course the volumes of the entangled spheers are essential. Let's take thus the mass ,the volume , the vel.of rot.spin. and finally the velocity of rotation orbital.we can take a generality for the equation, constant=mvV ...mv1v2V..for all physical spheres generalized by a sphere of whole.now you can correlate with the thermodynamic and the quantum number and the decrease of volumes, a little as our cosmological spheres, indeed a star is bigger than a planet....the logic is universal.The velocities of rotations are proportionals with mass if and only if dear tamari the volumes,spherical are considered with the biggest rationality, deterministic.The road towards our walls is logic with reals as numbers.

            Ps I am persuaded that this number is the same than our cosmological real number of spheres! and the serie is relativistically speaking the same.The number is important even for the light and its encoding by informations of rotations and frequences.That implies that the number during the fusion mass light of evolution doesn't change, ...tus the increases of mass is relevant with the volumes and the density.A little as our cosmolgical spheres, the number is finite and they evolve by increase of mass due to this fusion of light.If we consider the lattices as our cosmological spheres, you shall see the no mass of the space due to the not rotation, and the no mass of light due to an other main sense than the gravitational stability, these the linearity is relevant differenciating the sense.If you insert in the equation of Einstein E=mc² the speed of rot. spinal and the speed of rot.orbital of the whole of the spherical ultim entanglement you shall have E=(c²o²s²)m....that give logically with a time operator correlated with rotating spheres the maximum energy in all things at all scales......in a pure 3D.

            Regards

            Steve

            Tom

            Imagine that two of your nodes are fixed about a pure discrete empty space particle. The nodes are of the Planck length size containing mass/energy and spin in place. The spin also drags and spins the empty space between the nodes. When an empty space spins about a point in its 3-space center, it can do so and maintain its continuity with the rest of space. While doing so, it can transmit its anguler/spin momentum to the adjacent pure discrete empty node space particles without the nodes being displaced. Would this provide an emperical explanation for your transmission lattice mechanism? You would have continuity and discreteness existing simultaneously. If you imagine that the Planck length space is another curled up dimension, then your lattice struct-ture would be pure 3-space that appears to transmit light momentum across empty space.

            Guilford Robinson

              Vladimir

              I'm sorry, I put Tom's name instead of youts, I was thinking of your article and didn't realize that I had written the wrong name until after I sent it.

              Guilford Robinson