Dear Madam,

Mr. Peter Jackson, one of the finalists had asked us some clarifications. We think it may be of interest to you. Hence we post the reply to him below your Essay.

First let us answer to your question regarding how direct observation could be different. Since you are fond of spectroscopy, we will give you an example from that branch. Look at the mechanism behind the emission spectra and absorption spectra. Both the emitter and the observer are in the same bigger frame of reference linking both and separated by the field. You will admit that the scattering in the medium causes the difference.

You say: "direct light hitting the eye is also scattered." In our theory, different forces co-exist. Thus, it is not scattering, but comparison like when we measure (compare) the length of a rod by a scale. The scale is not scattered by the rod. When you say "it can be apparent when we move", you are falling into the trap laid by Einstein. We have discussed it elaborately earlier by giving the example of Eddington.

You have not defined dark matter or dark energy precisely. The phenomena cited by you as proof is indirect and not direct. We can explain those phenomena differently. You also admit this possibility indirectly when you say: "The plasma does the precise job our imaginary 'dark matter' does, and in the same places!"

You say: "The references again show that curved space time exactly matches the effects of diffraction (gentle refraction delays and path curvature) via scattering in plasma." We have given our interpretation of "curved space-time", which is different from GR and it can also explain the effects of diffraction equally correctly.

You say: "The separate terms plasma-sphere and ionosphere are really misnomers". But you admit their difference when you say: "they are a graded whole, proton rich low down and electron rich higher up." The grading is not smooth, but shows the same distribution like the arrangement of protons and electrons in an atom. Since protons and electrons are placed differently in nucleus and orbits, the plasma-sphere and ionosphere have to be treated as different. We divide the electric and magnetic fields into four types each based on their gradient. That, along with the interaction with the Solar wind will explain the rest of your comments.

Now we will explain 'velocity of the field', which also will explain the constancy of 'c'. We have already explained that the basic nature of the field is equilibrium. The basic nature of forces is displacement. This gives rise to two different types of inertia: inertia of motion due to forces and inertia of restoration (elasticity) due to the field. This leads to both these inertia acting against a point of equilibrium to create locally confined structures. These structures, which are nothing but confined field is called "rayi". Both the inertias further act on "rayi". In such a scenario, the combined effect leads to repeated confinement around the point of equilibrium. The confined structures in which inertia of restoration dominates, is called particle (moorty). In the opposite case, it is called "amrita". This can be considered as your DFM.

The confinement could be strong, weak or loose, which leads to the formation of solids, fluids (including gases) and plasma. We call these 'dhruva", "dhartra" and "dharuna" respectively. Where the inertia of motion dominates, it appears as heat. Depending upon the nature of the particles, the propagation of heat is also classified into three categories. In solids, plasma and fluids, these are done by conduction, radiation and convection. We call these as "nirbhuja", "pratrirnna" and "ubhayamantarena" respectively. The third category gives rise to the electric field. Thus, electric behaves like a hot fluid.

Till now we were discussing about the confinement of "rayi" (where inertia of restoration dominates). In the opposite case, where inertia of motion dominates, "rayi" gives rise to three corresponding forces of cold confinement. These can explain the effects of the so-called "dark matter and dark energy". Magnetism belongs to this category. Thus, magnetism is a cold confining force. Since both these are different states of "rayi", electricity and magnetism are two sides of the same coin.

Till now we were discussing "rayi", which is a part of the primordial field dominated by inertia of restoration. The other part is dominated by inertia of motion, which we call "praana". The effect of this is felt by other bodies. Hence this gives rise to force. Depending on their effects on different bodies, these forces are classified into different groups discussed earlier. While strong, weak, electromagnetic and radioactive disintegration forces belong to this category associated with inertia of motion and heat, gravitational interaction is associated with inertia of restoration and cold. Thus, they cannot be united.

After a part of the primordial field is confined within "rayi", inertia of restoration in the field becomes weak and inertia of motion dominates. Thus, the field generates waves that expand rapidly in all directions. You call this big bang. The effects of "rayi" and "praana" in the primordial medium create the bow shock effect. This leads to reduced velocity of the wave, which ultimately stabilizes, cutting off a vast volume which we call universe. Since there is no reason to believe that it happens only in our locality, we believe in multiverses, which are similar universes and not as described by MWI.

After the bow shock comes to rest, the forces of inertia of motion and inertia of restoration cancel each other leading both to a superposition of states. We call this "maayaa". But the equilibrium is momentary, since the balance between "rayi" and "praana" within the confinement of "maayaa" has not been equated, the next moment inertia of restoration dominates and there is massive contraction. You call this inflation. We call this force "dhaaraa". This creates further interaction, which leads to structure formation. We call this "jaayaa". Outside the structures, the inertia of restoration still dominates. You call it the cosmic microwave back ground radiation. We call it "aapah". Thus, the universe can be picturised as an ocean containing many islands. The galaxies can be imagined to float in an "ocean" called "saraswaan", the stars can be imagined to float in an "ocean" called "nabhaswaan", and the Earth like planets can be imagined to float in an "ocean" called "samudra arnava".

Just like the Earth orbits the Sun and spins around its own axis due to the combined effects of the Sun's movement and that of the inter-stellar medium that move in different directions on the one hand, the different magnetic fields on the other hand (in a broader scale, these are the effects of "rayi and praana" and "dhaaraa and jaayaa"), the Universe as a whole also moves within the confines of "maayaa". This appears as the receding galaxies, just like the planets sometimes appear to move away from each other. This movement of the Universal field is constant for all structures. This is what you describe as "space has inertia and angular momentum."

It is well known that objects are perceived only during transition. The transition can be of two types: the object can move or the field containing the object can move while the object is stationary (both together are also possible, but they fall into these two groups). In the case of electromagnetic field in space, it is the field that moves at a constant velocity. You also admit it when you say: "ALL matter in motion is in motion with respect to a LOCAL background. Light entering the galaxy is Doppler shifted by the Halo to the galaxies 'c', again at the heliopause to the Sun's 'c', and at the Ionosphere to the Earths 'c', and on ad infinitum." The only difference is that you presume the particle is moving at 'c' with respect to the back ground, which you take as at rest. We take the opposite view of the background with us moving at 'c'. Like we do not experience the motion of the Earth, but think the Sun and the stars are orbiting it, we do not experience the motion of the back ground since we are also moving with it. But the effects in both cases are the same.

Regarding the 3 frames, you are on the right track. Here we quote from one of our posts under the Essay of Mr. Rafael Emmanuel Castel, where we had commented elaborately about Einstein's 1905 paper.

Einstein: We assume that this definition of synchronism is free from contradictions, and possible for any number of points; and that the following relations are universally valid:

3. If the clock at B synchronizes with the clock at A, the clock at A synchronizes with the clock at B.

4. If the clock at A synchronizes with the clock at B and also with the clock at C, the clocks at B and C also synchronize with each other.

Thus with the help of certain imaginary physical experiments we have settled what is to be understood by synchronous stationary clocks located at different places, and have evidently obtained a definition of "simultaneous", or "synchronous", and of "time". The "time" of an event is that which is given simultaneously with the event by a stationary clock located at the place of the event, this clock being synchronous, and indeed synchronous for all time determinations, with a specified stationary clock.

Our comments: Einstein sets out in the introductory part of his paper: "...the phenomena of electrodynamics as well as of mechanics possess no properties corresponding to the idea of absolute rest. They suggest rather that, as has already been shown to the first order of small quantities, the same laws of electrodynamics and optics will be valid for all frames of reference for which the equations of mechanics hold good. We will raise this conjecture (the purport of which will hereafter be called the "Principle of Relativity") to the status of a postulate...". The "Principle of Relativity" is restricted to comparison of the motion of one frame of reference relative to another. Introduction of a third frame of reference collapses the equations as it no longer remains relativistic. The clock at B has been taken as a privileged frame of reference for comparison of other frames of reference. If privileged frames of reference are acceptable for time measurement, then the same should be applicable for space measurement also, which invalidates the rest of the paper.

Simultaneity refers to occurrence of more than one action sequences, e.g.; events, which measure equal units in two similar action sequence measuring devices, e.g.; clocks, starting from a common reference point, e.g.; an epoch. It is the opposite of successive events. Synchronisation refers to the readings of more than one clock (or interval between event from an epoch), which do not require "clock correction", i.e.; when such readings are compared with a common or identical repetitive action sequence or action sequence measuring devices, their readings match. It is not the opposite of successive events, but can also be simultaneous - for example, two clocks synchronised with each other will give similar readings simultaneously. If one of the clocks give 24 hour reading while the other gives 12 hour reading, then half of the time they will give readings that are synchronized and simultaneous, while half of the time they will not be so. Yet, the results can be made to synchronize by deducting 12 hours from any reading beyond it in the clock giving 24 hours reading. Here the clocks will be synchronized through out, but give simultaneous readings alternatively in succession or otherwise.

In the definition of simultaneity given by Einstein, the two clocks situated at two distant points in the same frame of reference (whether the frame of reference is inertial or not is not relevant as both the clocks and points P and P' are fixed in the frame) are said to be synchronous, if their readings of the identical events in both clocks match. This only refers to the accuracy of mechanical functioning of the clocks and uniformity of the time unit used in both the clocks. This definition is nothing but telling the obvious in a complicated and confusing manner. Since the two clocks are synchronised, they should record equal time in both the frames of reference over equal interval.

We have also shown that if we follow the logic of Einstein, then we will land in a problem like the Russell's paradox of set theory. In one there cannot be many, implying, there cannot be a set of one element or a set of one element is superfluous. There cannot be many without one meaning there cannot be many elements, if there is no set - they would be individual members unrelated to each other as is a necessary condition of a set. Thus, in the ultimate analysis, a collection of objects is either a set with its elements or individual objects, which are not the elements of a set.

Let us examine set theory and consider the property p(x) : x  x, which means the defining property p(x) of any element x is such that it does not belong to x. Nothing appears unusual about such a property. Many sets have this property. A library [p(x)] is a collection of books. But a book is not a library (x  x). Now, suppose this property defines the set R = {x : x  x}. It must be possible to determine if RR or RR. However if RR, then the defining properties of R implies that RR, which contradicts the supposition that RR. Similarly, the supposition RR confers on R the right to be an element of R, again leading to a contradiction. The only possible conclusion is that, the property "x  x" cannot define a set. This idea is also known as the Axiom of Separation in Zermelo-Frankel set theory, which postulates that; "Objects can only be composed of other objects" or "Objects shall not contain themselves".

In order to avoid this paradox, it has to be ensured that a set is not a member of itself. It is convenient to choose a "largest" set in any given context called the universal set and confine the study to the elements of such universal set only. This set may vary in different contexts, but in a given set up, the universal set should be so specified that no occasion arises ever to digress from it. Otherwise, there is every danger of colliding with paradoxes such as the Russell paradox, which says that "S is the set of all sets which do not have themselves as a member. Is S a member of itself?" Or as it is put in the everyday language: "A man of Serville is shaved by the Barber of Serville id and only if the man does not shave himself?" Such is the problem in Special theory of Relativity.

Thus, "when we have to connect in time series of events occurring at different places, or - what comes to the same thing - to evaluate the times of events occurring at places remote from the watch", we must refer to a common reference point for time measurement, which means that we have to apply "clock corrections" to individual clocks with reference to a common clock at the time of measurement which will make the readings of all clocks identical. (Einstein has also done it, when he defines synchronization in the para below). This implies that to accurately measure time by some clocks, we must depend upon a preferred clock, whose time has to be fixed with reference to the earlier set of clocks whose time is to be accurately measured. Alternatively, we will land with a set of unrelated events like the cawing of a crow and falling of a ripe date palm simultaneously. A stationery clock and a clock in a moving frame do not experience similar forces acting on them. If the forces acting on them affect the material of the clock, the readings of the clocks cannot be treated as time measurement. Because, in that case, we will land with different time units not related to a repetitive natural event - in other words, they are like individual elements not the members of a set. Hence, the readings cannot be compared to see whether they match or differ. The readings of such clocks can be compared only after applying clock correction to the moving clock. This clock correction has nothing to do with time dilation, but only to the mechanical malfunction of the clock.

There is nothing like empty space. Space, and the universe, is not empty, but full of the Cosmic Background Microwave Radiation from the Big-Bang. In addition to this, space would also seem to be full of a lot of other wavelengths of electromagnetic radiation from low radio frequency to gamma rays. This can be shown by the fact that we are able to observe this radiation across the gaps between galaxies and even across the "voids" that have been identified. Since the universe is regarded as being homogeneous in all directions, it follows that any point in space will have radiation passing through it from every direction, bearing in mind Olber's paradox about infinite quantities etc. The "rips" in space-time that Feynman and others have written about are not currently a scientifically defined phenomenon. They are just a hypothetical concept - something that has not been observed or known to exist. Thus, "light signals, given out by every event to be timed, and reaching him through empty space" would be affected by these radiations and get distorted.

Regards,

basudeba

Dear Sir,

We are not interested in the prize. We are concerned the way science is heading. It is not a question of being sportsman-like when spot-fixing is ruining the game. It is not a question of being magnanimous when fraudulent activities are condoned. We believe not opposing a wrong is equal to committing a wrong. Kindly point out if we have written anything wrong. If not, please join us in protesting wrong doing.

Regards,

basudeba.

Michael ,

it is very interesting to hear your point of view. As you have said "there are many ways to skin a cat". Which has now given me the wonderful mental picture of the FQXi judges surveying the suspended skins and naked cat bodies to select the final winners. Are they looking for a neat dissection using formal, traditional technique or informal enthusiasm demonstrating creative flare and style or raw unconventional talent; perhaps the fur already shaped into mittens and a pile of mince? It is clear that some contestants merely managed to give their cats a nasty surprise. (If the contestants have also escaped unharmed is yet to be ascertained.)

There is another saying, "Horses for courses". One would not expect a champion steeple chaser to also perform as an excellent trotting horse or vice versa. It is not logical to say that because the trotting horse does not perform well at the hurdles he is incapable of being the very best trotting horse possible. If a stable of top performing race horses are required then ponies, heavy horses, 3 day eventing and trotting horses have no place. But if all round excellence is sought then the scope for choice is much greater.

4 days later

You don't even seem to realize that we are all oon the same side here, thru purest billigerence..

Even if I could point to an error of yours, sir, it would have naught to do with any sort of frauduleTnt activites due to the Community. There is certainly no position-fixing.

!

Please read the Rules carefully, sir, for there you shall be illumined as to the other portion of the Position-number you speak of. And that is RElevance. That is yet to be Judged! How relevent is your Essay and your Threads as a Body of work entire?

We are of Peace Always,

T

lol

Hello Russel,

Sandy Denny's beautiful voice is a hard act to follow. Though I do like "We have all the time there is." It works on many levels. Thank you. I can also think of many occasions when it would be useful to remember it.

Perhaps time has just been too baffling, and so has not been given as much thought as it has deserved over the last 100 years. Many people just seem to give up and say "we can't understand it, so why bother thinking about it?"

It does not seem to be any -thing- at all of itself. Even aging is being gradually deciphered as various structural material changes rather than inevitable, irreversible, process linked to time. Which seems to make time a very valuable, irreplaceable, nothing, which is still not as generally thought provoking as it ought to be...

Kind regards, Georgina.

That is an incredible song! It communicates that our true reality may be in the relationships with those around us. Thank you for posting the link! And, good points about aging not being purely linked to time.

What actually produces time is a different kind of reality. No one knows for sure, but there is an interesting idea worth exploring. Perhaps in the last 100 years we have had the data to define time all along, and there may be yet another angle that can help figure it out. I'm thinking specifically of the well-known mass-energy equation, E = mc2. If we look at the units of c2, they are length2/time2 -- the units of motion. The mass could be considered a scalar modifying a maximum possible motion.

Now if we change our view a little more, we might consider c2 to be a potential within the quantum vacuum that actually drives the motion of mass, which is made of particles with internal motion, to produce energy. If this is an accurate viewpoint, the potential then defines length and time.

Surprisingly, Einstein's equation could help explain quantum mechanics after all as the potential drives internal particle motion. What defines the potential? That could possibly be the limitation of what can be known in physics.

Well, I don't know, but that gives a simplified idea. There are so many aspects of how to look at reality. Your link to the song provides a great example of that.

Kind regards, Russell

I am posting this here as I put it in the wrong place on the Digital or Analogue thread and do not want it just getting lost. I think it might be useful. I would appreciate any constructive feedback.

Georgina Parry replied on Apr. 3, 2011 @ 20:51 GMT

Talking of terminology past, present, and future are insufficient and confusing as terms in physics imo. They refer to space time experience which can be different for each observer, according to reference frame. The relative quality of those terms is often not fully appreciated and the present may be assumed to be and used as if singular and absolute when it is not. How can this be improved. My current thoughts are ...

There needs to be the equivalent of a future which is nothing but potential and probability, nothing existing that has been actualized, P.stage (Potential, probability). Then there needs to be actualising reality. This is where spatial material changes occur sequentially, the causality front, or unitemporal time. A.Stage,(Actualisation). Then comes the receipt of the data from the actualised reality, giving a manifest appearance. This is the equivalent of the present, which is different for each observer due to different transmissions delays for each reference frame and position, M stage(Manifestation); and then the stage of storage of events in memories or data banks etc. The equivalent of the past. R stage,(Records).

Quantum physics is dealing more with P and A stage but trying to relate it to M stage. Relativity is dealing with M stage and R stage and does not assume any P stage or A stage , as everything, past, present and future is modeled to co exist in space-time.As it is using individual observer experience of manifest reality for the model.

The sequence is P, A , M, R. Potential, Actualisation, Manifestation, Records. As data accumulates in R it can be seen to build up but is not building up -from- there. The only place where material spatial change is occurring is at A, the receipt of data giving M stage is also occurring within A.

To tie in with John's point, does tomorrow become yesterday? Yes because tomorrow is first potential and probability, then actualized events, then manifest events and then records of events. Does yesterday become today -no not really. What still exists from yesterday is part of today. It was actualised and has remained actualized so it is a continuation rather than a becoming.It may exist both in R and at A because it was formerly actualised and manifest and is still actualised.

    Actualisation has to come before manifestation because data must be transmitted to the detector, (which is not instantaneous) and then the manifest reality must be formed by the observer from the received data, (which is not instantaneous). The manifestaion that is observed is created by the observer from the received data and does not prexist that occurrence.(Cf. wave function collapse.) The actualised but unobserved reality must preexists the observed manifestation enabling data to be available from which the manifestation of reality is formed.

    Relativity is only concerned with the manifestation of reality, so can not account for such things as causality, non determinism, it does not have an open future.Quantum physics is concerned with probabilities becoming actualized and manifest reality and does not fit with space time. It is dealing with P stage becoming A stage and attempting unsuccessfully to fit with space-time M stage.

    Having the whole sequence of stages P, A , M, R, allows the relationship between QM and relativity to be seen in a new way. What is happing at the P to A stage of reality will not fit observation of the M stage, because it is not the same phenomenon at all.Sequential actualization allows passage of time. There is no passage of time in relativity as such only observer perspective giving the manifest reality.

    Russel,

    thank you so much. I am so glad to hear the words "I agree".It is a rare treat.

    Re keeping it going, a few thoughts. The expanding universe, and its cold death are ideas that have come from observation of the manifestation of reality (image reality) rather than being the object-universe at unitemporal Now. So it is a giant conceptual error imo.

    In nature the rotation of the earth, affect of the sun and moon lead to currents of air and water that give heat flows that would not be predicted for an isolated system without those inputs. Likewise in nature small changes can build into much larger ones as seen in weather systems, which might seem to be working against increase in entropy. This sort of thing makes me think that the whole object-universe may be a giant feedback loop and to abuse Newtons first law -A universe in motion continues in motion (unless acted upon by universe stopping force!)I don't think anyone is turning the handle.

    I am also interested in hearing where your wondering may have taken you.

    Dear Georgina,

    We need more agreement on the good points don't we!

    Your Potential, Actualisation, Manifestation, Records sequence makes good sense and makes a nice framework. In particular the Potential and Actualisation aspects are where my wondering has taken me. Roger Penrose is suggesting we look at existing data from new angles to see if new results natuarally fall out. It seems like that is what you are doing as well. Very interesting stuff!

    Kind regards, Russell

    Dear Russel,

    I see that your whole essay is about a preliminary theory of what "keeps it going." I am sorry I have not read it earlier. There were just too many essays to read all of them. Now that the community voting stage of the competition is over I have lost the motivation to keep on reading essays, though I know there are lots of good ideas in them.

    I will comment on your essay, on your thread, when I have had time to read it thoroughly. For now, I liked the fan analogy and the diagrams make it very clear. I have talked about a 4th dimension on this web site quite a bit, so I understand exactly why you are talking about it and why you have considered it necessary. Though my opinion has changed slightly over time. I now think it has to do with relative perspective and the 3 dimensional framework not allowing for continuous spatial change that is not directly observed. So it is quite probably a representational problem rather than an actual extra spatial dimension,imo. Anyway give me some time to carefully read and think and I will get back to you.

    Kind regards, Georgina.

    5 days later

    Thanks Georgina again for your words

    ....I am reminded of very ancient fairy tales where there is a competition for the golden apple and the winner competes with three different horses; a red one, black one and white one. The champion also gets wounded during the competition.

    Well, anyway, I look heartily towards another contest riding a horse of another color.....

    I'll leave the mince and take the mittens. Feel free to email me directly if you wish to correspond further or please suggest good essays to read etc.

    John Barrow has a very good lecture on his new book of universes, a book of hours for our times at Gresham's website. I never knew that Hubble was such a snob......and his meagre technician assistant was such a talented individual. Barrow is so interesting in that he looks into the people this way.

    Michael

    mjeub@visi.com

    I am going to try to attach a diagram which sets out the explanatory model of reality under discussion in my essay and shows how QM and relativity are related to it.It is a useful summary and helps to clarify the relationship of the ideas.

    I hope this demonstrates more clearly that this is not at all woolly or unclear thinking, or entirely abstract and irrelevant to QM or relativity.It clearly shows how the two physics models are looking at different aspects of reality and therefore can co-exist without being contradictory.

    Please excuse the homemade quality of the diagram. I could have spent longer on making a beautiful professional quality graphic but it would not convey any more information.Attachment #1: diagram002.jpg