Hi Tom,

Having written 9 pages I would like to think that you had read past the first line and found at least something of merit in it. Apart from your query about the choice of quote in that very first line I have heard nothing more from you.

The wording of your reply to me on your own thread makes me doubt that you have even read my essay.

I am not arguing that there is a difference between external reality and our human biology, as you said, but that there is a difference between underlying reality and that reality generated from the input of data to a reality interface, which can be inorganic or organic. That is how temporal distortion becomes incorporated into the generated reality, that I am calling image reality. It is therefore a space-time reality , where as the underlying reality is uni-temporal. I decided it would be more helpful to clarify that matter on this thread as it may also be useful to other people considering the content of my essay.

Kind regards, Georgina.

  • [deleted]

Hi Georgina,

I don't see how you can speak of a "reality interface" (which you allow can be either organic or inorganic) without implying that there is something special about the sensing mechanism that differentiates it from the observer effect in quantum mechanics. Indeed, you take pains to describe the mechanics of sensation -- biological sensation. Quantum mechanics, however, already identifies the observer with the act of observation and makes no differentiation between the reality interface of the human observer and the particle detector.

Assuming that nonhuman particle detectors do not analyze and interpret data, then there must be something different in the biological mechanism by which one creates the personal picture of reality that you describe.

You write: "We can only 'see' what we choose to observe and are capable of observing." That's absolutely true. That's what the quantum mechanical observer effect describes.

You write: "The time dimension does not pertain to Object reality, only Image reality." That's also true, and also subsumed by (nonrelativisitc) quantum mechanics. The phenomenon of nonlocality, without which quantum mechanics is incoherent, assures us that quantum configuration space (object reality) cannot map to local space (image reality) without a nonlocal model. The time operator in quantum mechanics is unity.

You don't need to deny relativity, however, to affirm the truth of quantum mechanics. They are two different things, and in every case put to the test, are both true.

In my forum, you emphasized the importance of encouragement along with criticism. You have forgotten, however, that I long ago encouraged you, in the forums, to pursue your ideas in terms of brain mechanics and the physics of consciousness. Here and elsewhere, I have spoken of brain science as the next great frontier of human knowledge.

You along with others often accuse me of not having read what you have written. There is bitter irony in this for me. If you all knew the extent of my lifelong disorder -- the compulsion to read everything intensely and repeatedly, not just literature, but instructions, laundry tags, road signs, warnings, logos, tattoos, everything -- you might feel differently.

I wish you the best. In this contest and every other aspect of your life, whatever you make of reality. I can't do more than that.

Tom

Dear Georgina,

I have responded to your post on my essay page.

Best regards,

Tejinder

  • [deleted]

Hi Georgina,

I didn't make any arguments about absolute time and space. That's the Newtonian model. In relativity, it is only spacetime--the combination--that is absolute and physically real in general relativity.

My objections to Edwin's theory are clear enough and I won't rehash them. However, I can't see why you keep insisting that I didn't read your paper when I explicitly cited points you made that are subsumed by quantum mechanics. And now you've just brought up the same points again. Let me see if I can explain it another way:

In quantum mechanics, time is unity. That is, it drops out of the equations. Why not set it to zero, then? -- because the dynamics of quantum mechanical interactions, unlike general relativity, do not allow space collapsed to a point (singularity) which is where the physics of general relativity ends. (That's why we use 2 dimensional mathematics in the Hilbert space to calculate the outcome of quantum events.)

So your "uni-temporal" time is identical to the way time is treated in quantum theory, and observer dependent as you allow, with incomplete information on the state of a particle as measured. "Distorted spacetime" is how time is treated in general relativity, i.e., warping caused by the presence of matter. The observer dependency here is that the warping or distortion we measure is only the result of measuring changes in position among mass points, never spacetime points. That's why information about the state of spacetime is incomplete in quantum mechanics but reconciled in general relativity by Lorentz invariance, the physics of "empty space."

I appreciate that you seem obsessed over the grandfather paradox in general relativity, but this is really more science fiction than science. It comes about as the alternative to what was once thought a paradox, but is not. This is the so-called twin paradox, where a fast-travelling twin ages slower than one who stays at home. Because the physics is not symmetric, however, we know that it's not true time-reversed symmetry and thus no paradox. The grandfather paradox on the other hand is based on the classical requirement of time symmetry, the fact that the equations operate as well backward in time as forward. While this is true, the popular implications of "tinkering with the spacetime continuum" are not physically justified. Einstein's (Minkowski's) spacetime continuum is constrained by 3 1 dimensions. A four dimension (indeed, any even dimension) model that includes time, is orientable. This means that one direction is just as good as the other, whether forward or backward in time; the trajectory may be differently oriented, but the passage of time is the same. IF it is possible to travel to meet one's grandfather in a singularity, and IF it possible to kill one's grandfather at that point (real big IFs where the physics is unknown) even that event would not affect the "real" 3 1 spacetime outside the singularity. It would only imply what quantum mechanics already knows, that in Eddington's words "Something unknown is doing we don't know what." That's not paradox. That's nature.

I'm familiar with Julian Barbour's work. I plan to leave a note.

Best,

Tom

  • [deleted]

Georgina,

You have a new post on Michael Jeub's Forum.

    • [deleted]

    Dear Tom,

    It is good to hear from you. Perhaps argument was not the correct word to use I should perhaps have said absolute time and space came into the discussion.

    I am not insisting that you did not read my paper merely saying that I am unsure because of the limited feedback that has been received.I am delighted if you have actually read it. Thank you.

    Yes that is the point . Uni-temporal time makes it possible to fit with quantum mechanics. I am giving a -physical reason- why there has to be a uni-temporal time at that foundational level but a spread of time in the space-time continuum. So this overcomes the puzzle of why the two will not fit.I think that is important.

    I am not obsessed by the grandfather paradox but it is important to me. A paradox shows that something is not as it should be. Ridiculous proposals that nature somehow forbids the traveler from killing his grandfather or that the whole scenario is conducted over parallel time lines in different universes is contrived and unnecessary.

    But I am saying it is not an unknown unknown Tom. One can not travel through time that does not exist.Thinking the model is the territory is the problem here. Something else Julian Barbour has brought up.

    We do have to be donkeys and not philosophers here. It is not quantum mechanics or relativity. If each camp is represented by a pile of hay , the sensible donkey finds a way to eat both. He will not remain undecided and starve and he will not content himself with just one of the two piles.

    I am interested in what you have to say to Julian Barbour. See you there.

    • [deleted]

    Whom so ever cares,

    My reply to Lorian Gray on his thread "Even the darkness is made of light" might be of interest to those who have read my essay. It sets out more clearly that we are not dealing with just one level of reality. That space-time is a higher order reality than foundational, uni-temporal, unobserved, reality and the bridge between the two is the EM field. As I explain in my essay it must in unobserved reality, if we trust in realism, be a medium that can allow transmission of EM waves through it and be perturbed by mass and the ordered flow of electrons giving gravitational time dilation and electric and magnetic fields respectively.

    I have not yet read Eugene Klingman's essay in detail, as I wish to wait until I have the opportunity to devote my full attention to it. (As I also intend to do with Peter Jackson's and Eckard Blumschein's essays.) So I do not know whether the C field that he mentions is the same. It may be that it is the field, observed from a space-time perspective. I have read some posts which mention that the gravito magnetic field is well known.

    Lorian,

    Is that the complete essay? If it is I am a little disappointed as it makes such a good introduction to what could have been an interesting alternative exploration of reality and what it means for our models.

    I do think that the holograph idea has a place but is once again only a partial solution to the complete problem. Realism is necessary. There has to be objects. Whether those are fundamentally different from what is in between them in a [should read -is] another question. Those objects emit or reflect EM waves whose wavelength and intensity allow sensory interpretation of the spatially separated matter. So it is the EM field, which can be perturbed by gravity, that enables space-time to be generated as a higher level reality. So this gives 3 levels of reality. The foundational objects and medium, the holographic EM field, and the space-time observer interpretation.

    Unfortunately I think "Reality" by Michael Christian is a simpler and more profound entry. His entry also addresses the essay question.

    If there is more to your answer than has appeared here I would be interested to read it.

    Kind regards, Georgina

    • [deleted]

    I do not name the medium or observed field in space time within my essay. It is unfortunate that I have here referred to the field through which electromagnetism passes as the EM field, as that term is used for the field produced by charged particles and -only that-. I am referring to a field that exists WHETHER OR NOT charges are present. The EM field produced by the charged particles will be just another kind of disturbance or perturbation of the -PRE-EXISTING field, as are gravity and magnetism.

    The different manifestations observed in space-time depend on what is occurring within the unobserved medium of EM transmission. An idea that I first discussed in Eternity Found 2007. So the field in space time relating to the medium of EM transmission in unobserved reality needs another name or EM field is extended to refer to all manifestations of a disturbance of underlying medium. I do not yet know if Eugene Klingman's C field is the same.I will endeavor to study his essay this weekend.

    • [deleted]

    Hello Georgina,

    Feels like picking up where we left off in our blog discussions many months ago! I certainly am with you on a call for greater 'physical realism' in physics.

    Concerning your explanation of the double-slit experiment, however. I am not drawing any conclusions. I have my own explanation on this as you know. Just trying to understand your ideas better.

    Is it accurate to say that you hold on to a 'particle view' of electrons etc. being 'fired' following a path trajectory to the screen? That you are adding to this view an 'unobservable ocean' (ether?) that fills space. That this 'unobservable ocean' makes the waves as the particles traverse from 'source to screen'?

    If so, then a good analogy to this, I think, is the 'pattern of debris' on a sandy beach deposited there by waves washing ashore. Thus, where there is more 'wave action' on shore, you also have more deposits, while where there is less wave action you have less. If so, this idea may be verifiable by experiment, where the waves in a tank go through a double-slit and interfere, and the 'seeds' they carry get deposited on a sandy platform. Just a thought ...

    Constantinos

      Hi Geogina,

      You have started your essay with Einstein words (the same I used in mine). However, in contrary, you seem to disagree. I shall recommend you very interesting point of view on H. Being's perception (http://www.cogsci.uci.edu/~ddhoff/interface.pdf) that seems to support Einsten's view. The publication has amazing conclusions.

      You claim: "Objects spatially separate from an observer are not sensed directly, due to transmission delay between reflection or emission of potential data and its receipt." That is very important and it will help me to develop my concept.

      You are pro in biology so the evolution theory is very familiar to you. In my essay I apply the theory to support a concept that the reality evolved from analog to digital and the common ancestor is a primordial conformally flat spacetime. I am interested in your opinion.

      You are the most active in reading and commenting so the next question to you is: what do you think about the essays in general. Do they conform to the evaluation criteria: to be accessible to a diverse, well-educated but non-specialist audience as well as clearly written? I found somewhere an opinion that many of them do not (probably of someone from the public because I cannot find an essay by the guy).

      Best regards,

      Jacek

        • [deleted]

        Dear Jacek,

        really good to hear from you. It has been so quiet here lately that I have started blithering nonsense to myself and then tying myself up in it. I am really glad if something I have said in my essay has inspired your own thinking.

        I do agree with what Einstein expressed but not with the word -merely-.Einstein considered his space-time continuum to be the foundational reality when in fact I has to be a higher level of reality generated from data that has taken time to be received. He was not a realist and having rejected Newtonian ideals believed the space-time continuum was all that is, was and will be. It is a kind of illusion, he simply called it reality rather than seeing it as part of a greater reality.He leaves out a whole other facet. No wonder there were unsolved questions and paradoxes.

        Only by having a co-existing reality without time dimension can it be resolved. When I say something like that people start to say you can't get rid of time there has to be time. I have even been berated as a "time denier" on the fqxi forum by a certain gentleman, which amuses me. However time is many ideas. There is still passage of time due to change in spatial arrangement of the contents giving a sequence of earlier and later. Without the absolute foundation there is nothing concretely real to generate the data for the higher level appearance.I do not believe that the magic of incompleteness and metaphysical realms are -scientific- explanations for the generation of the appearance of reality.

        Yes I think evolutionary ideas are useful in physics.Your essay is certainly clearly written and accessible. It is good that you start with thinking about the definition of reality. Many essays have just assumed that the reader has the same idea of reality and do not even consider what else it might be.I do like that you are considering perception, as that overlaps with what I am thinking about. I find the discussion of the evolution of the universe less appealing so will have to work harder there.I will try to leave some constructive feedback on your thread.

        I have decided that if I want other people to read my entry I should read and have some interest in theirs. There is a great diversity. Many are largely inaccessible to me. I am used to reading scientific articles as it is something I enjoy dong. Technical language (so long as it is not overdone) and formal impersonal presentation does not bother me. The hardest thing for me is mathematics. The best essays in my opinion are those which have avoided over use of technical language and mathematics and complex expression but have explained the ideas clearly and in an easily accessible and enjoyable way.

        I do not think the essays are being marked according to the criteria at present as some very demanding papers are at the top of the list.What I tend to do is see what I can decipher and make the most of it unless it really captures my attention. In which case I will want to find out more. Papers that do not make me intrigued or eager to read on, but just throw up too much technical information, are disqualified from my further consideration. Perhaps the essays will sort themselves out towards the end of community voting . I will be very disappointed if the majority of the top essays turn out to be the ones inaccessible to non specialists.

        • [deleted]

        Hi Constantinos,

        Welcome.

        I think I am going to have to say it depends. That is because we can not know what an electron -is- in foundational reality, we can only imagine what it might be from our observations within space-time, on the other side of the reality interface. Also the way I visualise a particle will be different from how a quantum physicist would describe it.

        There are two different facets to reality what is and its appearance. In between the two is potential data. As I have been saying it is only at a reality interface that the unique data that forms image reality is collected. So the image reality of the electron, the appearance that gives us awareness or experience of it, comes into being at detection. So perhaps the unseen electron in foundational reality should be called by another name pre-electron perhaps.

        I do think we need realism. It is something that can both effect and be effected by a medium. It has mass so is something with an object universal trajectory that resists perturbation, but that can be perturbed. It behaves in a certain way and, as you say, when it is detected it is called an electron. Whether the electron that is detected is the electron that was transmitted is another question. It is the energy of the electron that causes a change in the detector so it clicks or records a hit. At what point in time does it become an electron? Is it when the researcher sees his results? when the detector clicks? when the energy change in the detector occurs? or when something is released into the double slit apparatus? That is both a philosophical question and an important question of linguistic definition.

        Constantinos I am sorry if that sounds like a very woolly reply. We do not yet have separation of the identity of something in underlying foundational level reality and its counterpart in higher level space-time experienced reality. I have been trying to talk about the medium but getting a little in knots. It may be because i am tired from reading so many essays. A field experienced in space-time reality is not the same thing as a disturbance of a medium in foundational reality, though the two are related. One is the space-time experience the other is what must be to give the experience. I think the double slit already is evidence of a medium, though any further corroborating experiment would be helpful.

        • [deleted]

        Madam,

        We are neither the first, last nor the only proponent of re-evaluation of modern physics. In this forum, we are dealing only with physics - discussing theories that correspond to reality in all its different manifestations - and neither philosophy nor meta-physics. You must recognize that observer has an important role in quantum physics and discussion about it is not philosophy alone.

        We are only pointing to the blurring of the diving lines between education, knowledge and science. You can try to educate somebody. But you cannot make him learn. The purpose of education is to educate - receiving/imparting (and as a consequence also receiving) information that can be stored in the memory and retrieved as and when necessary to initiate the required mechanism for getting the desired outcome. Thus, it is related to the potential for using information efficiently and has nothing to do with knowledge or science per se (an Engineer and a mechanic can perform the same task with equal efficiency), though we use science as a tool for imparting education. Unfortunately, the present education system has degenerated to memorization and reproduction of certain facts in an expected manner and the potential for the same has been linked to knowledge.

        Knowledge is related to unification of the various sensory impulses to create a stable memory. None of the fundamental forces of Nature in isolation is useful for creation. Only collectively they can create stable systems. Similarly, knowledge, which unifies the different perceptions, is stable. Science is related to the opposite process of individuation - of processing or analysis of individual sensory impulses with the help of memory. Processing here is nothing but measurement, which in turn is comparison between similars. Individual sensory perceptions are not knowledge, but evolution of knowledge in limited directions, which has the potential to change the nature of the world around us in desired directions (sometimes in disastrous directions). The purpose of our writing this is to focus the discussion on the failure of theoretical scientists to lead the experimental scientists. As we can see, without theoretical guidance, the experimental scientists are creating Frankenstein's Monsters, which will gobble us all.

        You have raised an important question relating to time. You say: "Time is a very complicated term as a large number of concepts are lumped together within it". This because of two reasons: reductionism and lack of an unambiguous and precise definition of time. Regarding the first point, we will quote an anecdote. Six blind persons went to "see" an elephant. They touched one of its limbs each and described the elephant based on their perception. According to reductionism, each description is scientifically proved. But even if you combine all their statements, one who has not seen an elephant can never have a complete picture of the animal. On the other hand, one who has seen the animal can easily appreciate the correctness of the statements. Something similar happens in the case of time. We do not consider all aspects of time, because we have not defined time unambiguously and precisely. Do it and see for yourself - all the anomalies vanish. We have done that and the results can be seen in our essay and various other posts by us under different threads here - specifically those of Mr. Biermans and Mr. Castel.

        Regards,

        basudeba.

        P.S. We do not mix academic and personal communication, as it silently distracts. As we can see, you have a charming personality. Hence your response is natural. Kindly excuse us if our words appeared harsh. Our email id is: mbasudeba@gmail.com

        • [deleted]

        What is meant by reality? when does something become real? and if it is already real before that how should we discuss and model it? These are very important questions that I have touched on in my essay.

        It is the logic of the under 2s that something that can not be seen is no longer real. Even a dog can work out that the bone under a box is still there. With the problem solving intelligence of a 5 to 7 year old. So yes we do need a return to realism. I am glad to have read a number of other essays asking for the same.

        Seeing the magic trick does not make the magic real because reality is more than appearance alone.

        • [deleted]

        Georgina,

        Some parallels come to mind between your view and mine:

        Whereas you speak of Objective Reality and Image Reality, I argue that before energy is 'manifested' there is an 'accumulation of energy' which cannot be directly observed (since it is below the threshold of the 'observable'). Not that what is 'unobservable' does not exist. Simply that we cannot directly observe it. This we recognize in all other experiences of the world. So why would physicists have a problem with that.

        Whereas you speak of a 'medium' filling space, I argue in my essay that the 'prime physis quantity eta' fills space. Planck's constant h is such a quantity. I argue that the wavefunction is also such quantity! We both agree that something has to fill physical space. Though we can think of an abstract mathematical space which is 'empty', we can't conceive of an empty physical space. Since that flies in the face of what 'physical' means. Physical is what has substance and so also existence. Substance takes space and existence has presence. And what has presence is what happens Now! So I believe we also agree on our sense that time is Now. And any other understanding of time is an abstraction constructed by humans. Just as empty space is a human abstraction.

        I believe that Thermodynamics makes our claims valid! In my essay ("A World Without Quanta?") I show that both the Fundamental Thermodynamics Relationship, as well as The Second Law of Thermodynamics are about time. These validate my claim that time in nature is a 'duration', t-s, and not 'instantiation', t=s. This claim gives validity to the assertion that before 'manifestation' there is 'accumulation' of energy. Furthermore, the 'internal energy' that Thermodynamics speaks of can be thought as just this unmanifested energy. So there is plenty in what is already known in physics to corroborate our claims.

        One troubling thought: If as we claim physical time is 'duration' and not 'instantiation', than that raises serious concerns about the use of time in GR where 'events' are just points in the spacetime continuum. GR may not be supported by Thermodynamics! And the Cosmology that GR gives rise, deeply Thermodynamical, may just be false! Just a thought! I'll let others make such determinations.

        Constantinos

        • [deleted]

        Hi Constantinos ,

        thank you for going over your veiw. We share the requirement for realism. I agree that we can not know what fills foundational reality but it can not be empty. It can be given any kind of name but that does not alter what it -is-, it is just a chosen name. Like a personal name is not the whole person. Nor is any mathematical description the something itself.

        Since replying to your post I have been thinking more on what an election is.

        Reality is not a singular concept.(addressed in my essay) nor is time ( I have listed the different kinds of time on fqxi blogs and elsewhere.)and nor is electron or any other particle. Perhaps it would be best to label the different ideas related to an electron alphabetically.

        a. electron in an atomic structure.

        b. free electron

        c. electron at detector causing detectable change

        d. transmission of electron information from detector (eg click representing electron) to human sensory system.

        e. Sensory input re "electron" transmitted to brain for processing and giving conscious awareness.

        f. Conscious awareness of an event identified with an electron .

        g. mathematical, literal or artistic visual representation of an electron.

        It has to be admitted that these are not identical somethings although they all bear the same name electron. It is like the electron is metamorphosing along a path from foundational reality up to our conscious higher level awareness of reality. If the alphabetic letter was included as a prefix to the word electron it would clarify exactly where in the range of realities this particular electron under consideration is.

        Space-time is only the appearance of reality. It is an illusion generated from received information, not what exists and is happening at objective uni-temporal Now. In foundational reality change or energy is a purely spatial phenomenon which gives rise to emergent passage of time. At the foundational level it is change in sequence of configuration giving earlier and later that exists. There is no time dimension.

        The physics occurring at the sub atomic scale in foundational reality can not be directly used for the space-time image. They are just not the same thing. Though of course they are related as one is the temporally distorted image of the other.The passage of time, which includes duration, is not the same as time along the time dimension which is a geometric dimension.There is no passage of time within space-time alone. It is a static block of existence.

        Prior to highly complicated mathematics, there needs to be clear definition of what -exactly- is being considered. The precise terms can then be used. Rather than using unclear general terms and assumptions that everything with the same name is the same, and that everyone is considering the same thing when a particular name is used.

        • [deleted]

        Tom,

        I would like to add that you merely say that the grandfather paradox is science fiction. You adhere to the experimental evidence of non locality and the theory of quantum indeterminacy but do not adhere also to the experimental evidence and theory of relativity which would indicate that time reversal is a justifiable proposition. Therefore you are not dealing with the two models in the same way. It is relativity and space-time that has stood the test of time for longer and has not been dis-proven,

        I am clearly demonstrating that foundational reality and space-time are not on the same footing as one is what -is-, the foundation and the other is an emergent higher level reality. I have explained why the time dimension does not exist in foundational reality and why what happens in foundational reality does not directly relate to space-time experience. The time dimension of space time is an artifact of transmission delay of data and is not actually a geometric component of foundational reality. That explanation is not nothing. It is important and I find your attitude hard to comprehend.

        If it was not still a puzzle to many scientists why do questions keep being asked? Why are they trying to fit foundational models into space-time ? Why are they asking about time reversibility? Why are they treating space time as if it is foundational reality? etc etc. The case is not closed so I don't like you dismissing my contribution out of hard as the product of an irrational obsession.

        Dear Georgina:

        Your second to the last paragraph in your response to Jacek is really on the mark in my own humble opinion.

        Also, I think of myself as one of a "non-specialist audience" (as Jacek mentioned in the prior post) and the essays that I most enjoy reading are the ones that are looking at the universe in a novel way.

        Joseph Markell

        • [deleted]

        Hi Alan,

        thank you so much for taking the time to read my essay. I really do appreciate it. I am aware of how time consuming it is to work through other people's essays and take in what they are saying and the way they are saying it.

        I am always interested in ideas. I will take another look. Through there are also a number of other papers that I need to spend time on, as I have said that I will.

        • [deleted]

        Madam,

        We were watching various comments on your thread. In stead of responding piece-meal, here is our response.

        We are neither the first, last nor the only proponent of re-evaluation of modern physics. In this forum, we are dealing only with physics - discussing theories that correspond to reality in all its different manifestations - and neither philosophy nor meta-physics. You must recognize that observer has an important role in quantum physics and discussion about it is not philosophy.

        We are only pointing to the blurring of the diving lines between education, knowledge and science. You can try to educate somebody. But you cannot make him learn. The purpose of education is to educate - receiving/imparting (and as a consequence also receiving) information that can be stored in the memory and retrieved as and when necessary to initiate the required mechanism for getting the desired outcome. Thus, it is related to the potential for using information efficiently and has nothing to do with knowledge or science per se (an Engineer and a mechanic can perform the same task with equal efficiency), though we use science as a tool for imparting education. Unfortunately, the present education system has degenerated to memorization and reproduction of certain facts in an expected manner and the potential for the same has been linked to knowledge.

        Knowledge is related to unification of the various sensory impulses to create a stable memory. None of the fundamental forces of Nature in isolation is useful for creation. Only collectively they can create stable systems. Similarly, knowledge, which unifies the different perceptions, is stable. Science is related to the opposite process of individuation - of processing or analysis of individual sensory impulses with the help of memory. Processing here is nothing but measurement, which in turn is comparison between similars. Individual sensory perceptions are not knowledge, but evolution of knowledge in limited directions, which has the potential to change the nature of the world around us in desired directions (sometimes in disastrous directions). The purpose of our writing this is to focus the discussion on the failure of theoretical scientists to lead the experimental scientists. As we can see, without theoretical guidance, the experimental scientists are creating Frankenstein's Monsters, which will gobble us all.

        You have raised an important question relating to time. You say: "Time is a very complicated term as a large number of concepts are lumped together within it". This because of two reasons: reductionism and lack of an unambiguous and precise definition of time. Regarding the first point, we will quote an anecdote. Six blind persons went to "see" an elephant. They touched one of its limbs each and described the elephant based on their perception. According to reductionism, each description is scientifically proved. But even if you combine all their statements, one who has not seen an elephant can never have a complete picture of the animal. On the other hand, one who has seen the animal can easily appreciate the correctness of the statements. Something similar happens in the case of time. We do not consider all aspects of time, because we have not defined time unambiguously and precisely. Do it and see for yourself - all the anomalies vanish. We have done that and the results can be seen in our essay and various other posts by us under different threads here - specifically those of Mr. Biermans and Mr. Castel.

        You discuss observed Image reality and unobserved Image reality. By this we understand directly perceptible and indirectly perceptible or inferred. You have rightly clubbed them into one group. We call this group existence.

        You say: "Where and when an image appears to exist is dependent upon the observer reference frame and is not intrinsic to the object itself." We agree and only add that the external environment introduces an element of uncertainty due to its effect on perception by the observer. We have discussed this aspect elaborately in our essay. From this we infer that uncertainty is not a law of Nature. It is a result of natural laws relating to observation that reveal a kind of granularity at certain levels of existence that is related to causality.

        You say: "The description of reality is affected by the methods of investigation used, the pre-existing concepts applied and mathematical modeling employed." Unless the perception (results of measurement) is described in communicable language, (or self realized) it does not make any sense. Hence, we call these as describability.

        You say: "If a description requires acceptance of paradox, unreality of all things, quasi reality or supernatural agents or realms, yet is a description that fits with observation, it must be incomplete if not incorrect or non science". This shows that there is a limit on our ability to "know". Hence, we call these as knowability. We combine these aspects and define reality that satisfies these criteria.

        You say: "The mathematical space-time model is a construct giving a mathematical representation that fits well with observations of Image reality but is not a complete model of reality." We have shown in our essay that Nature is mathematical only in specified ways. Regarding space, time, space-time and arrow of time, we have discussed briefly in our essay and in our comments under the threads of Mr. Biermans, Mr. Castel, etc. We have written a book in which we have discussed on this subject in detail.

        We agree that: "Image reality is a means of amalgamating information that arrives together, rather than that which was generated together." But we do not agree with your description that it does not require a conscious observer. In fact we call the agency that amalgamates the information as the conscious observer. You say that this information can be amalgamated by a mechanical detector. But then the resultant information is in a superposition of all possible states, because the so-called wave function collapse can occur only after it is measured (perceived) by a conscious observer. Thus, ultimately, we have to admit the conscious observer.

        You say: "The data contained in the image is not from contemporaneous origin so the image is not temporally homogeneous." We agree and have discussed it at various places. The data (result of measurement) is the description of the state at a designated instant. We do not agree that "present is a composite formed from data, experienced simultaneously". We posit that all systems are dynamical systems. Present is a designated instant in analog time that depicts the temporally evolved state of a dynamical system at that designated instant. Thus, we cannot agree that: "The Image reality becomes a manifestation when the simulation is formed from the available data. It does not exist prior to that process." It certainly existed prior to that process, though in a different state. Further this proves the existence of the conscious observer. Otherwise, your statement that it will "...becomes a manifestation" becomes meaningless.

        When you differentiate between "current time" and "Uni-temporal, or Objective, Now", you are leaving out the definition of time from the above description. Both space and time are related to sequence. Time is the ordering of the interval between events just like space is the ordering of the interval between objects. Both are indirectly perceptible through events and objects only. We take a segment of this interval, which is fairly repetitive and easily intelligible, and call it the unit. We compare this unit with the interval between objects and events and call these as space and time. Since space and time are indirectly perceptible, they are described through alternative symbolism by describing the objects or events associated with these. We can choose a segment from any or all event sequences without interfering with the laws of physics. When we restrict our description to a single sequence, it is "current time". When we widen our choice to encompass the whole universe, we call it simultaneity or "Uni-temporal, or Objective, Now".

        You say: "Change or potential for change can be regarded as energy." What you are describing here is the effect of energy, which you are confusing with energy proper, which is the cause. We agree that "Energy is never destroyed. So change is continual and inevitable." But what is energy? We hold the homogeneous primordial field as the back ground structure of creation. By a mechanism which we are not discussing here, instability in the medium leads to a chain of events giving rise to "time", as we know it. This created inertia of motion, which was opposed by the inertia of restoration (elasticity) of the medium. This interaction, according to the same mechanism led to the density variation. This also leads to local confinement, which became the particles. Generation of particles led to further density variation. The inertia of restoration then pushed the particles around, which is seen as the effect of energy on those particles. This effect is experienced at two levels: proximity or intra-particle and distance or inter-particle. Depending upon the proximity-proximity, proximity-distance, distance-proximity and distance-distance variables, the effects are experienced as strong nuclear, weak nuclear, electromagnetic and radioactive disintegration forces. Gravity is a composite force that stabilizes: the orbits of planets and stars and the orbital of atoms. Since stabilization depends on density distribution, gravity is related to mass. Since density of intervals between objects is relatively less, in a closed system like Earth-Moon or Sun-planets, the density of the medium appears homogeneous. Hence, gravity is related to distance. The inter-relationship appears as the gravitational constant. Thus, you are right that: "Energy is never destroyed. So change is continual and inevitable."

        Your description of air traffic control hints at a few fundamental principle. If you accept space as the ordering of the interval between objects, then position becomes a function of (or relative to) the ordering you choose. But this description can be meaningful only between the two objects that are joined by the interval. Thus, they belong to a specific frame of reference. If we want to relate their relationship with that of another object, then the other object must be within the same frame of reference or the frame of reference (interval) must be enlarged to bring the other object within it. This is what Einstein describes in his 30-06-1905 paper "On the Electrodynamics of Moving Bodies":

        1. If the clock at B synchronizes with the clock at A, the clock at A synchronizes with the clock at B.

        2. If the clock at A synchronizes with the clock at B and also with the clock at C, the clocks at B and C also synchronize with each other.

        Here clock at C is the privileged frame of reference. Yet, he tells the opposite by denying any privileged frame of reference. Further, his description of the length measurement is faulty. Here we quote from his paper and offer our views.

        Einstein: Let there be given a stationary rigid rod; and let its length be l as measured by a measuring-rod which is also stationary. We now imagine the axis of the rod lying along the axis of x of the stationary system of co-ordinates, and that a uniform motion of parallel translation with velocity v along the axis of x in the direction of increasing x is then imparted to the rod. We now inquire as to the length of the moving rod, and imagine its length to be ascertained by the following two operations:-

        (a) The observer moves together with the given measuring-rod and the rod to be measured, and measures the length of the rod directly by superposing the measuring-rod, in just the same way as if all three were at rest.

        (b) By means of stationary clocks set up in the stationary system and synchronizing in accordance with §1, the observer ascertains at what points of the stationary system the two ends of the rod to be measured are located at a definite time. The distance between these two points, measured by the measuring-rod already employed, which in this case is at rest, is also a length which may be designated "the length of the rod".

        In accordance with the principle of relativity the length to be discovered by the operation (a) - we will call it the length of the rod in the moving system - must be equal to the length l of the stationary rod.

        The length to be discovered by the operation (b) we will call "the length of the (moving) rod in the stationary system". This we shall determine on the basis of our two principles, and we shall find that it differs from l.

        Our comments: The method described at (b) is impossible to measure by the principles described by Einstein himself. Elsewhere he has described two frames: one fixed and one moving along it. First the length of the moving rod is measured in the stationary system against the backdrop of the fixed frame and then the length is measured at a different epoch in a similar way in units of velocity of light. We can do this only in two ways, out of which one is the same as (a). Alternatively, we take a photograph of the rod against the backdrop of the fixed frame and then measure its length in units of velocity of light or any other unit. But the picture will not give a correct reading due to two reasons:

        • If the length of the rod is small or velocity is small, then length contraction will not be perceptible according to the formula given by Einstein.

        • If the length of the rod is big or velocity is comparable to that of light, then light from different points of the rod will take different times to reach the camera and the picture we get will be distorted due to the Doppler shift of different points of the rod. Thus, there is only one way of measuring the length of the rod as in (a).

        Here we are reminded of an anecdote related to Sir Arthur Eddington. Once he directed two of his students to measure the wave-length of light precisely. Both students returned with different results - one resembling the accepted value and the other different. Upon enquiry, the student replied that he had also come up with the same result as the other, but since everything including the Earth and the scale on it is moving, he applied length contraction to the scale treating Betelgeuse as a reference point. This changed the result. Eddington told him to follow the operation as at (a) above and recalculate the wave-length of light again without any reference to Betelgeuse. After sometime, both the students returned to tell that the wave-length of light is infinite. To a surprised Eddington they explained that since the scale is moving with light, its length would shrink to zero. Hence it will require an infinite number of scales to measure the wave-length of light.

        Some scientists try to overcome this difficulty by pointing out that length contraction occurs only in the direction of travel. If we hold the rod in a transverse direction to the direction of travel, then there will be no length contraction for the rod. But we fail to understand how the length can be measured by holding it in a transverse direction to the direction of travel. If the light path is also transverse to the direction of motion, then the terms c+v and c-v vanish from the equation making the entire theory redundant. If the observer moves together with the given measuring-rod and the rod to be measured, and measures the length of the rod directly by superposing the measuring-rod while moving with it, he will not find any difference what-so-ever. Thus, the views of Einstein are contrary to observation. Regarding the other points raised in your essay, we have discussed many in our essay. We will be happy to offer further clarification.

        Regards,

        basudeba.