• [deleted]

Panic in Einsteiniana II

http://edge.org/conversation/a-philosophy-of-physics

"Carlo Rovelli is a leading contributor to quantum gravity, who is also made influential proposals regarding the foundation of quantum mechanics and the nature of time. Shortly after receiving his Ph.D he did work which made him regarded as one of the three founders of the approach to quantum gravity called loop quantum gravity - the other two being Abhay Ashtekar and Lee Smolin."

But Lee Smolin does not seem to care much about the relativity of simultaneity and Divine Albert's Divine Theory in general:

http://www.fqxi.org/community/articles/display/148

"Many physicists argue that time is an illusion. Lee Smolin begs to differ. (...) Smolin wishes to hold on to the reality of time. But to do so, he must overcome a major hurdle: General and special relativity seem to imply the opposite. In the classical Newtonian view, physics operated according to the ticking of an invisible universal clock. But Einstein threw out that master clock when, in his theory of special relativity, he argued that no two events are truly simultaneous unless they are causally related. If simultaneity - the notion of "now" - is relative, the universal clock must be a fiction, and time itself a proxy for the movement and change of objects in the universe. Time is literally written out of the equation. Although he has spent much of his career exploring the facets of a "timeless" universe, Smolin has become convinced that this is "deeply wrong," he says. He now believes that time is more than just a useful approximation, that it is as real as our guts tell us it is - more real, in fact, than space itself. The notion of a "real and global time" is the starting hypothesis for Smolin's new work, which he will undertake this year with two graduate students supported by a $47,500 grant from FQXi."

Joao Magueijo is even more radical:

http://www.amazon.com/Faster-Than-Speed-Light-Speculation/dp/0738205257

Joao Magueijo, Faster Than the Speed of Light: The Story of a Scientific Speculation, p. 250: "Lee [Smolin] and I discussed these paradoxes at great length for many months, starting in January 2001. We would meet in cafés in South Kensington or Holland Park to mull over the problem. THE ROOT OF ALL THE EVIL WAS CLEARLY SPECIAL RELATIVITY. All these paradoxes resulted from well known effects such as length contraction, time dilation, or E=mc^2, all basic predictions of special relativity. And all denied the possibility of establishing a well-defined border, common to all observers, capable of containing new quantum gravitational effects."

Yet neither Smolin nor Magueijo want to see Divine Albert's Divine Theory gone. It is a bad old rat but the only one they have:

http://www.angelfire.com/hi/littleprince/framechapter10.html

"Hum! Hum!" said the king. "I have good reason to believe that somewhere on my planet there is an old rat. I hear him at night. You can judge this old rat. From time to time you will condemn him to death. Thus his life will depend on your justice. But you will pardon him on each occasion; for he must be treated thriftily. He is the only one we have."

Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

  • [deleted]

Twin Paradox Or Absurdity?

http://phys.org/news/2012-04-physicists-abolish-fourth-dimension-space.html

"To illustrate the difference between the two views of time, Sorli and Fiscaletti consider an experiment involving two light clocks. Each clock's ticking mechanism consists of a photon being reflected back and forth between two mirrors, so that a photon's path from one mirror to the other represents one tick of the clock. The clocks are arranged perpendicular to each other on a platform, with clock A oriented horizontally and clock B vertically. When the platform is moved horizontally at a high speed, then according to the length contraction phenomenon in 4D spacetime, clock A should shrink so that its photon has a shorter path to travel, causing it to tick faster than clock B."

Imagine a long line of vertically oriented clocks, all of them STATIONARY. Clock A (oriented horizontally) remains on the moving platform and passes the stationary clocks at a high speed. If clock A ticks faster than the stationary clocks, as Sorli and Fiscaletti suggest, then the travelling twin from the Twin Paradox scenario will return older than his stationary brother. That is, special relativity predicts that the travelling twin will return both younger and older.

FINAL SOLUTION OF THE TWIN PARADOX: When the light clock of the travelling twin is oriented horizontally (parallel to the direction of motion), special relativity predicts that the travelling twin will return older than his stationary brother. When the light clock of the travelling twin is oriented vertically (perpendicular to the direction of motion), special relativity predicts that the travelling twin will return younger than his stationary brother.

http://www.haverford.edu/physics/songs/divine.htm

DIVINE EINSTEIN: No-one's as dee-vine as Albert Einstein not Maxwell, Curie, or Bo-o-ohr!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5PkLLXhONvQ

We all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Yes we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Everything is relative, even simultaneity, and soon Einstein's become a de facto physics deity. 'cos we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. We all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity. Yes we all believe in relativity, relativity, relativity.

Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

  • [deleted]

Pentcho

The above involves all sorts of flaws in respect of time, timing and dimension alteration.

By definition, the twins will be of the same age (that being timing). They are both timed together at the outset and the finish. One of them did not go to some 'other world'. According to the hypothesis, the one travelling faster contracted whilst being accelerated. But in order to achieve the same relative spatial position as the other again, his dimension reverted to its 'rest/equilibrium' state (ie the same as the other twin).

Paul

  • [deleted]

Almost all posts of mine in this thread disappeared. Why?

Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

    They were marked as spam. As a general rule, posts that are repeated or copied in multiple forums will be treated as spam.

    • [deleted]

    Regarding my post of May 28 @ 16:26, can someone explain to me where the new Space comes from in the balloon experiment? CIG offered an explanation. If it is wrong, I need a new explanation. What is current agreement? It is a very simple experiment. Is there agreement that there are new Spatial quantities INSIDE the balloon (if not, then I have no idea what the community is calling Space)? If there are new spatial quantities, where did they come from, that is, if CIG is wrong.

    Very simple question. Looking for the experts to answer in detail.

    Thanks,

    doug

      • [deleted]

      OK but the "variable speed of light" issue remains undiscussed. And it is crucial, as the essay contest will show.

      Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

      • [deleted]

      Good grief, Pentcho, "the variable speed of light issue" is discussed (and refuted) all the time. The only serious -- i.e., purely scientific -- treatment of it that I can recall is in John Moffat's book *Reinventing Gravity.*

      Philosophizing in the absence of theory contributes nothing to scientific debate. What I personally find annoying about your nonstop cutting and pasting is that you editorialize by omission, and often add your own interpretation of statements contrary to the author's intent. The latest example I recall is your quoting John Baez on the barn-pole paradox as saying something about arbitrary poles fitting into arbitrary barns -- someone like me reads that and immediately thinks, "I find it unlikely that Baez ever made such a ridiculous statement," and then runs off to the source to find that he actually didn't. You undermine your credibility by sending readers off on these wild goose chases, and soon no one bothers to take the bait.

      Tom

      • [deleted]

      Tom,

      Baez says that, according to special relativity, the 80m rod will be trapped IN A COMPRESSED STATE inside the 40m barn:

      http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/barn_pole.html

      "These are the props. You own a barn, 40m long, with automatic doors at either end, that can be opened and closed simultaneously by a switch. You also have a pole, 80m long, which of course won't fit in the barn. (...) If it does not explode under the strain and it is sufficiently elastic it will come to rest and start to spring back to its natural shape but since it is too big for the barn the other end is now going to crash into the back door and the rod will be trapped IN A COMPRESSED STATE inside the barn."

      I say that, according to special relativity, an arbitrarily long object can be trapped inside an arbitrarily short container. Do you still think there is a contradiction between what Baez says and what I say?

      Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

      • [deleted]

      I'm only going to respond once to this silliness. I don't think there's a contradiction -- I know to a certainty that there's a contradiction. The relative states of observer motion determine the measurements of barn and pole. Nothng arbitrary about it, which you would understand if you bothered to learn relativity.

      • [deleted]

      doug,

      You claim on your page " ... as mass approaches the speed of light, all that mass is shed and is converted into space."

      What you are saying essentially is that space is identical to energy. In Einstein's theory, what actually happens is that a body at relative rest gains mass when accelerated (mass and energy are equivalent) compared to its rest mass. In other words, because the potential energy of a massive body is converted to kinetic energy; a body in motion contains greater inertial mass-energy than the same body at rest.

      One of the cornerstones of physics is the law of mass-energy conservation, which your theory violates by creating "more space" (more energy).

      Your belief does rub up against a serious question among physicists: "What is the energy content of empty space?" In other words, given mass-energy equivalence, and given that space is not really "empty" but is teeming with virtual particles, can space have energy of its own. Current research and calculation suggests that though the energy content of space can vary point to point, the total energy is either zero, or negative (repulsive).

      It's hard to tell if you are really serious -- especially with your "Heads I win, tails you lose" challenge to skeptics. I got a chuckle out of that. :-)

      Tom

      • [deleted]

      Tom

      It is not the "relative states of observer motion" which are determining measurements. Apart from anything else, it cannot be. The hypothesis is that objects alter dimension when force is applied. Why this occurred, if indeed it does, was unknown. The observer is an object, and will therefore alter in dimension, just as the pole or anything else does (supposedly). And maybe light, which is what is received to effect an observation, is similarly affected-I do not know. But the point is that the base presumption is that dimension is altered by force. Which, incidentally, causes changing momentum. That being then, an alternative means of identifying such is occurring. Changing monentum is another consequence, not a cause.

      Paul

      PS: I agree with your point about Pentch's style of 'discussion'

      Paul

      • [deleted]

      "It is not the 'relative states of observer motion' which are determining measurements."

      Yes it is. Your curious notion that "force alters dimension" neglects that length contraction is relative to the rest state.

      Tom

      • [deleted]

      Hi Tom,

      I am in the unfortunate position to be disagreeing with the Great Professor.

      Matter, as it travels at higher and higher rates, toward its maximum limit of "c", does not gain mass. It sheds mass into its other manifested energy equivalent, Space. The conversion is:

      Equating energy to mass to space

      0.02762u = 25.7MeV= 14,952,942.08 pico meters cubed of space

      (Mass) = (Energy) = (Space)

      This is where the Space of the expanding Universe comes from.

      My full rationale for the claim can be found in my theory.

      Energy only represents the transition. It is not a fundamental. I view Fundamentals as space, time, and mass. (meters, seconds, grams).

      Concerning your note: "One of the cornerstones of physics is the law of mass-energy conservation, which your theory violates by creating "more space" (more energy)." :

      It may be recognized that since the mass turns to what you deem "more Space", that energy is conserved. Mass does not increase as it travels faster. What we term mass (the particulate matter of the Standard Model) turns into the Dark Matter and the Dark Energy, as that matter reaches certain percentages of "c" travel. Above all else, CIG does not violate Conservation of Energy laws.

      CIG takes the mass-energy equivalency (E=mc2) and combines it with the spacetime continuum. The resultant equation is MTS (see Cig Theory & try to find [Google ?] all my various postings). Matter doesn't warp Spacetime, rather, the Spacetime is actually turning into what we call matter. There is no distinction except "the degree to which thing are".

      In one of my postings you will find that I observed the same MTS concept in Einsteins field equation. I belive that CIG was there all the time, and that there is within the Great Professors field equation, the foundation for CIG. Therefore it is a new INTERPRETATION of Einsteins field equation, though discovered independently and through other means than an understanding of his work (because I admittedly lack the thorough even remote understanding). Let me know if you want my ramblings on the link of CIG to the field equations and my ramblings of same.

      THX

      doug (tails)

      • [deleted]

      Tom

      "Yes it is. Your curious notion that "force alters dimension" neglects that length contraction is relative to the rest state"

      But it is not my "notion" ("curious" or otherwise). Neither does the notion "neglect that length contraction is relative to the rest state". That is, by definition, what it is. Obviously, any alteration is always wrt, and in this case the dimension alteration is wrt to the 'rest state or equilibrium'. The presumption being that matter has a 'natural' state (manifest in its dimension) unless subject to differential forces. [Lorentz 1892 para 6: "Indeed, what determines the size and shape of a solid body? Apparently the intensity of molecular forces; any cause that could modify it, could modify the shape and size as well". Later (1904) the mechanism supposedly involved "flattened ellipsoids with their smaller axes in the direction of motion". A notion that had Poincare (July 1905) introducing some compensatory action in response to criticism as to how this could work]. That is, 'rest/equilibrium' is not still, there is movement, but not changing movement. The latter being caused by a differential in force which disturbs the equilibrium, invoking both changing momentum and dimension.

      That force was deemed to be gravity. [Einstein 1916 Sr & Gr section 28: "In gravitational fields there are no such things as rigid bodies with Euclidean properties; thus the fictitious rigid body of reference is of no avail in the general theory of relativity].

      Dimension alteration was deemed to be a real physical occurrence. [Lorentz 1892 para 3: "Such a change in length of the arms in Michelson's first experiment, and in the size of the stone plate in the second, is really not inconceivable as it seems to me"]. How the concept was derived, whether that derivation was correct, and indeed whether it does actually occur, is irrelevant. This is what was said to occur. The point then being that, in respect of the principle of relativity, one needs to 'watch out' for objects whose momentum is changing. Because something (ie dimension change) is also happening (supposedly) which we did not know about previously. Changing momentum being easier to sense than changing dimension. [Einstein 1916 (Foundation) section 22: "But a glance at (70a) and (69) shows that the expected difference is much too small to be noticeable in the measurement of earth's surface"].

      It has nothing to do with observation, light or indeed changing momentum. The latter is just another consequence. But with Poincare's flawed concept of time, and the introduction of the flawed model, spacetime, the original relationship between the variables (whether correct or not) was subverted and confused. The determining factor became seen as revolving around observation and timing. Apart from the fact that this was not the original hypothesis, it cannot be correct anyway. No form of sensing can have any effect on reality, because not only has it already occurred, but what is received to be sensed is not the reality. In terms of measurement, if dimension alteration does occur, then there will be an effect which needs to be accounted for.

      Paul

      • [deleted]

      In an attempt to re-focus toward the topic of Faster than Light speculation, and its proposed explanation of the Horizon Problem, the following is offered:

      Now, if you want to believe in Faster than Light theory that is obviously your choice. However, as far as its interpretation as a viable explanation of the Horizon Problem is concerned, the following is my proposed solution, and which works within the framework of "c" as a maximum limit that need not (cannot) be exceeded.

      Foremost, note that there is respectfull disagreement here.

      Very well then, my offered solution:

      From horizon to horizon, there need not be any "mixing" in order for identical temperatures to be found if those temperatures have been created in an isolated manner unaffiliated with the matter on the opposite horizon. This is exactly what CIG offers.

      Particulate matter traveling at the same rate, and regardless of where it travels will unfold into "identical temperatures (spatial field densities with identical energy equivalencies per unit volumes)" . At the speed of light, stellar masses unfold into Space (with its inherent temperature signature) in exactly the same fashion. The volume of Space may be different, since it is mass dependent (the more mass, the more spatial potential), but the temperature will be the same.

      Stellar masses unfold into spatial quantities independently from what may be another stellar mass on the opposite horizon, or anywhere else for that instance. They are there own Little Bangs. (this happens on the quantum level too as observed new Bohr orbitals).

      Similarly, Dark Matter halos will be at the same temperature no matter where they are found, as long as they represent the same manifested Spatial signature [(i.e. they are the same Spacetime field density)(or, in CIG this represents a varying cosmological constant)(they must travel at the same rate -that is, light must be affected, gravitationally speaking, equivalently, for the rates to be identical)].

      Also, again similarly, Black Holes will be found at the same temperature for the same reason, regardless of where they appear in the Universe.

      This same philosophy is carried over into the reason that Space is found at the same temperature on both horizons. It is the manner in which traveling mass unfolds into the different spatial field densities, each with identical temperature signatures as long as that mass is traveling at the same rate.

      As excerted from CIG Theory:

      If the very nature of light (matter) , per MT =S, always manifests itself according to its intrinsic values [To variations of Space (dark matter, dark energy, etc.), based on rate (c or percentages thereof) - and according to CIG Theory, of course], then, even though the distinct opposite ends of the Universe cannot logically correspond (talk) to one another due to their distances exceeding the limts of time, there shall still be an exact match of their temperature. In fact, CIG Theory demands this. CIG Theory offers a reason why the universe is in fact extremely homogeneous. It is based on the very nature of the manisfestation of mass to space. At pure space (the darkest of dark energy), temperatures are identical, and there is no need for communication between two horizons. Each separate side of the Universe is following the same CIG transformation (mathematically no different from the other when mass travels at an identical rate), so of course they will be at the same temperature.

      The Horizon Problem states, in part "This presents a serious problem; if the universe had started with even slightly different temperatures in different areas, then there would simply be no way it could have evened itself out to a common temperature by this point in time."

      The temperatures are a direct result of the mass to space transformation process. There is no need to "even" anything out. It is inherent to the CIG process. CIG Theory requires it be, because at the rate "C", any entity will manifest itself into the identical Space, no matter what side of the Universe that entity is on.

      Therefore, they will be at the exact same temperature. This is the nature of CIG Theory. The same Dark Matter on one horizon will be at the exact same temperature as the same Dark Matter on the opposite Horizon, as its calculations (transformations) are one and the same.

      CIG Theory appears to allow for a coherent explanation of the Horizon Problem. In fact, to CIG Theory, it is no problem at all, since CIG would expect that the universe be formed with precisely the same properties everywhere (space for space, dark matter for dark matter, i.e. - the same transformation is only comparable to its like transformation - you cannot compare the temperature of dark matter with dark energy - here the dark matter will be hotter)(by the very nature of the manisfestation itself- the transformation of matter to space). It could also have formed decidedly slower, without an inflationary aspect having to "freeze" in these properties. The properties are inherent to the CIG transformation.

      An analogy:

      If you bake some bread on one side of the Universe, and you bake some bread on the other side of the Universe, and they taste the same, did the loaves have to talk to each other? CIG Theory says no, because in CIG, we are baking the bread. Current theory says how can the bread taste the same, they must be talking to one another (but they can't, because they exceed the limits of time). Current Theory forgot to bake the bread!

      These are just a few thoughts on the Horizon Problem. Please make every effort to understand CIG Theory in this regard.

      CIG also explains where the Space comes from for there to be an expanding Universe. Red Shift anomalies, Dark Matter, Dark Energy are all explained.

      A thorough understanding of CIG will clear up any confusion surrounding the Double Slit experiment as well.

      THX

      doug

      • [deleted]

      The speed of light varies with the speed of the observer:

      http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/0022407388901227

      "During his research on acoustics, Doppler in 1842 predicted the effect of the motion of a train on the pitch of its whistle: the pitch increases as the train approaches a station and decreases as it recedes. This Doppler effect was later applied to light, so that if a light source emits waves of period tau when at rest, the number of oscillations that meet a stationary observer during a time interval t is t/tau. But if the observer moves toward the light source with a velocity v, thus covering a distance vt in time t, an additional vt/lambda oscillations will be met (here lambda is the wavelength, and lambda = c(tau), where c is the velocity of propagation). Therefore, altogether, the moving observer encounters t/tau vt/lambda = (t/tau)(1 v/c) oscillations in the time t."

      If the observer encounters t/tau vt/lambda oscillations in the time t, then the length of the wave segment covered by the observer in the time t is (c v)t. Accordingly, the speed of the light wave as measured by the observer is c' = c v.

      Pentcho Valev pvalev@yahoo.com

        • [deleted]

        OK - so there is this outrageous claim that mass turns to space. This claim proposes not simply a re-positioning of Matter within a given Space, but that there exists an actual equivalency among Space and Matter analogous to the Energy to Mass equivalency found in E=mc2.

        Admittedly, this equivalency whereby one atomic mass unit (1u) = 541,380,958.7 pico meters cubed of "new" Space, appears at first glance more than preposterous. Even I am skeptical and it is my theory.

        But, CIG Theory's roots simply wallow in the splendor of relativity and represent the new interpretation of length contraction.

        Philosophically, this mass to space conversion is based on the following rationale:

        "Where there is a different time there must be a different place. Where there is a different place, there is a different space. Where there are different spaces, there are different volumes. CIG theory explains the creation of new volumes of space created as the result of different times imparted onto

        the world universe and as a direct result of the relativistic nature of nature."

        The "different times" mentioned in the above paragraph are those same "different times" that are offered in the concept of time dilation.

        Realistically though, how does the creative process take place? So, just how does mass turn to space?

        Here, I offer only possibilities:

        The particle travels so fast it is both here, and there, and over there, and here, such that the wave function probability is an actuality. The Space becomes. It's collapse back into the "less Spatial, corpuscular particulate form of matter" represents reality when it slows down.

        As a good friend of mine and fellow poster (not imposter) on this site [G from Italy (I'll send you my book if you give me your address)] theorized, the new geometric surface areas manifest themselves in such a way that the new Space is created. Now here I can actually see how the Space may be created. If for instance, to expand on 'G's" offerings, the mass, as it travels faster and faster, unveils so many more geometric sides to itself, so many new three dimensional surface areas, that this may be just the explanation for how mass turns to Space that I was looking for. Most of my theorizing was based on the offering itself and its solutions to all those foundational questions posing the fields of Cosmology and Physics.

        And it is this Space that explains the expanding Universe (I've said that in previous posts).

        And, it puts determinism back into quantum (said that too).

        So, CIG may not be as far fetched as first thought.

        www.CIGTheory.com (said it)

        THX

        doug (same)

        Caramel apples for everyone!

          • [deleted]

          OK - I'll save you the trouble of asking, and here are my "ramblings" about the link of CIG to Einstein field equations that I referenced above. I don't understand the field equations, but looked at them closely enough to compare certain variables in the quation. Please focus on those variables. So, what I stated in the above post is that CIG can be found within the Eistein field equation, according to a new INTERPRETATION. I've explained it below as best I can:

          From the Wiki - Cosmological Constant site:

          The cosmological constant Λ appears in Einstein's modified field equation in the form of

          ADD Field Equation Here as it would not "cut and paste" see Wiki

          where R and g pertain to the structure of spacetime, T pertains to matter and energy (thought of as affecting that structure), and G and c are conversion factors that arise from using traditional units of measurement. When Λ is zero, this reduces to the original field equation of general relativity. When T is zero, the field equation describes empty space (the vacuum).

          The cosmological constant has the same effect as an intrinsic energy density of the vacuum, ρvac (and an associated pressure). In this context it is commonly defined with a proportionality factor of 8π: Λ = 8πρvac, where unit conventions of general relativity are used (otherwise factors of G and c would also appear). It is common to quote values of energy density directly, though still using the name "cosmological constant".

          A positive vacuum energy density resulting from a cosmological constant implies a negative pressure, and vice versa. If the energy density is positive, the associated negative pressure will drive an accelerated expansion of empty space. (See dark energy and cosmic inflation for details.)

          END Wiki

          Enter CIG

          OK - Specifically, where it is stated above, "When T is zero, the field equation describes empty space (the vacuum). & remember, " T pertains to matter and energy (thought of as affecting that structure)"

          this correlates with CIG as follows:

          In CIG, when matter [their T (not mine which states T=Time)] is no longer there, it has transformed into space [MT=S]. It is an interpretation that within the Einstein equation, and where T pertains to matter and energy (thought of as affecting that structure, and where it is also stated that When T is zero, the field equation describes empty space (the vacuum), this all correlates to CIG, whereby it is an active process through which matter manifests itself into the vaccuum. It is stated many times within CIG that this is due to varying rates (% of"c"). Spacetime must be broken.

          SEE CONEY ISLAND GREEN THEORY TODAY

          The Wiki - Cosmological Constant site stuff did not cut & paste well - please go directly to the site and correlate with my additional comments:

          • [deleted]

          CORRECTIONS to the above post :

          ... variables in the "equation". Please focus on those variables....

          &

          ..... CIG can be found within the "Einstein" field equation, according to a new INTERPRETATION. I've explained .....