Tom,

I found your paper refreshingly informative toward the end, but I had to wait until page four for some things I think needed stated to be right up front. It was a struggle getting through the first few pages, but if you had an opening paragraph starting something like this, it would have been an easier read. "Research shows there is promise in a system that preserves freedom within a system community and allows cooperation between them. The image of well-maintained fences with open gates, serves to illustrate this principle at work..."

But if the reader is patient to continue reading, there is a gem in the rough to be uncovered in this paper. You have made a brilliant observation, Tom; now if only you could highlight it better. My rating will reflect both my appreciation of your point and the mixed feelings about how it is presented.

Regards,

Jonathan

    Tom,

    FQXi asked how should humanity steer the future. Didn't you equate humanity too much with the national perspective of U.S.A.?

    At least you left the position of those philosophers and physicists who denied causality and the distinction between past and future: Russell, Einstein, ...

    Do you hope for reaching more than emotional resonance? I am still fed up with "scientific socialism".

    Regards,

    Eckard

      Hi Tom,

      I enjoyed reading your essay. I particularity like the analogies of the fences with open gates and the knife being as important as the cake. You have set out a well argued vision for USA recovery.

      I wonder whether climate change and falling oil production in the future will severely affect world trade because of the rising costs and difficulties of transport and logistics.Outsourcing manufacturing and importation of food and goods from all around the world has been cheap. It isn't sustainable though, it is wasting resources. It may be that local production and consumption become once more the most cost cost effective choice and more sustainable too. Then it would be more difficult to get a cut of the wealth by planning and distribution of other countries' 'cakes'. What do you think?

        Jonathan,

        I agree. I should have taken more care to present the solution before the problem. Instead I put it all in a too-short abstract. The problem is depressing; I think there are too few, however, who understand what conditions the liberal secular ideal is responding to, why we fought a revolution here against tyrants from afar, and then another bloody war against tyrants at home.

        In the news, there is this rancher in Nevada who grazes his cattle for free by stealing government owned land, and calls it his right to profit from the property and labors of others. His motives are clear -- he openly wonders if "the Negro" would be better off picking cotton than being unemployed and hanging out on the porch. Clearly, he feels entitled to own and control others and steal with impunity.

        That issue is separate from the issue of fairness in land use laws -- it's a deeper flaw in the American psyche that hangs on to pre-Enlightenment ways of doing things. We can't afford it. The world can't afford it.

        The rancher rides around on his horse waving the U.S. flag (this is literally true, for those who haven't seen the story) -- while contradictorily proclaiming that he doesn't recognize the government. He thinks the Constitution supports his right to plunder and exploit. If it were just this one crazy individual who holds these views, one wouldn't worry about it. The sickness and the ignorance has spread much further.

        All best,

        Tom

        Hi John,

        Yes, I agree -- we speak of the price of money as if it were goods. That's not in itself the problem, though. Money as capital is indeed a commodity that loses value when not traded -- when we reach the state as we have today, that investors are merely trading among themselves and withholding capital from wealth creators, eventually the value of even that limited trade degrades. Not good for either the investors or the investment, because of overproduction and underconsumption, which are two sides of the same coin.

        Best,

        Tom

        Tom,

        One of the main ways of sustaining the value of that excess capital is to have the government, ie. public, borrow it back and fund everything from wars to research with the over-production, then sell off any income producing asset, such as results of the research, to well connected private interests, so while it may not be 'the problem,' it is certainly a problem and one which is shortly going to trigger a crisis and crises are noted as opportune times for change.

        I don't see much being withheld from anyone with even a slim idea for wealth creation, but I do see a lot of unsustainable wealth extraction being used to fund this financial production.

        Regards,

        John

        Yes, John. The thing is that, " ... unsustainable wealth extraction ..." is equivalent to wealth reduction. Did you understand my point about eating the seed corn?

        Thank you, Georgina. I agree in principle that local production/consumption is cost efficient. However, it leaves the locality vulnerable to economic instability (boom-bust), natural disasters and internal self-destructive feedback.

        What I aim to describe is an effective, rather than efficient, global model -- where waste and redundancy are assets. That is, a continually shifting hub of redundant global economic activity is a self-similar, self-reinforcing network that dulls the effects of positive (i.e. out of control) feedback brought on by both internal and external challenges to global stability, while assisting local recovery when needed.

        Such a robust network allows network nodes to act independently when they can and cooperatively when they must.

        I have done no more than scan your essay -- though it looks delightful! I will comment when I can.

        Best,

        Tom

        Hi Eckard,

        Yes, I had a particular reason for focusing on the U.S. For the time being at least, the U.S. leads in the knowledge and technology management requisite to helping create and sustain a globally linked network of resources that can respond quickly and effectively to local economic and natural disasters.

        Best,

        Tom

        Tom,

        Very much so. So even though we frequently don't see eye to eye, sometimes that difference of perspective can lead to broader understanding in other subjects.

        Regards,

        John

        Tom,

        The American way of consumption did indeed conquer the hearts of many people worldwide and caused the collapse of Soviet Union. I am however not sure whether this temptation will still suffice as to get control over religious conflicts like in Syria, nationalism like between Russia and Ukraine, and the seemingly harmless unlimited growth of population.

        When I was a boy, I read a booklet that told me the main center of power and culture was shifting from Greece to Rome, to Eastern Rome, from Spain to France, etc. Maybe, China could get leading in future if mankind will be unable to install an international secular power. I am sure having Nobel correctly understood in that question.

        Regards,

        Eckard

        • [deleted]

        A theory of how to fix the world:

        We don't intend to debate the liberal ideal here -

        we believe in it. We think it's the only sane

        ideal among all choices, because it doesn't

        expect the individual or the society to do the

        same things over and over again only to get the

        same undesirable results; it expects the

        individual to grow on her own terms. What we

        intend, is to frame a scientific perspective that

        allows both believers in democracy, and the

        opposition, to coexist and prosper in the

        inevitable transition to a democratic world. For

        if this transition is not inevitable, extinction of

        the species is all we can look forward to.

        We are trying not to write a political tractate -

        facts are as they are, and we offer to explore a

        fact-based scientific, not political, solution.

        Politics, nevertheless, can as easily pave the way

        for science as for special interests that pay for

        their privileges with expensive lobbying of

        legislators.

        We may see a particular structural model, then,

        as a mode of communication by which individuals, and cultural/political organizations of

        individuals, can freely contribute to the

        common well and drink from it, without being drowned in some doctrine of forced behavior.9

        The motivation for Lim, et al, derives from Bar- Yam's extensive research in complex systems,

        culminating in the theory of multi-scale variety. This theory generalizes the principle that

        lateral, rather than hierarchical, distribution of activity and information drives system

        effectiveness: "In considering the requirements of multi-scale variety more generally, we can state

        that for a system to be effective, it must be able to coordinate the right number of components to

        serve each task, while allowing the independence of other sets of components to perform their

        respective tasks without binding the actions of

        one such set to another." 10

        Underlying is a hidden assumption we wish to make obvious: human free will transcends cultural and

        political boundaries; if the means to cooperate is available, the will follows.

        The means to guarantee entitlements - food, clothing, shelter, education and mobility - is a

        logistics problem.

        We want to explore how high-tech logistics

        management of many small and redundant

        systems, linked in a robust global network,

        makes it possible to guarantee equal global

        sharing of resources without depriving

        individuals of personal access and use of as

        much property as they can acquire, in unequal

        measure. The idea of ownership in this model

        shifts from control of people to control of real

        property in a distributed system:

        Bar-Yam introduced multi-scale variety, the idea

        that independent subsystems allowed to organize

        around task coordination at different times on

        different scales, makes the larger system

        effective. One can summarize: locally efficient

        use of resources assures global effectiveness in

        the creative growth of resource availability -

        with the caveat that local subsystems remain

        independent, because otherwise the drain on

        local resources will reduce subsystem

        effectiveness and cause an undesirable positive

        feedback loop by lack of sufficiently varied

        resources to sustain required tasks.

        A remarkable 2006 result of Dan Braha and

        Yaneer Bar-Yam 17 demonstrated that in a selforganized

        communication network, a

        continuously shifting hub of distributed activity

        causes the map to sometimes vary quickly and

        radically on local scales over short time

        intervals, even while the map itself shows little

        global change aggregated over long time

        intervals.

        This abstract model would mirror complex

        military movements and communications, if we

        considered the map as a theater of operations thesize of the globe. That is, each communicator in

        the network has at their workstation all the

        necessary resources to deliver a message and

        coordinate events, sometimes acting as the hub

        of activity, sometimes as the beneficiary of

        information and sometimes as provider of

        information. Point is, the metastability of the

        system over time suggests that a continually

        shifting range of activity represented by

        changing hub configurations is self limiting; as a

        result, the global domain is largely protected

        from the danger of positive feedback - i.e., a loss

        of system control and potential widespread selfreinforcing

        destruction.

        Etc.

        Didn't answer my question. What leader? What act? I think you understood not a word of what I wrote.

        Eckard, I think that an equitable distribution of resources, even with unequal consumption, will obviate 'leaders' entirely on the global level, and the need for them. The world is capable of self organizing around our common needs and desires, so long as we are willing to give up control of people, in favor of rational control of resources.

        Tom,

        I can't transfer enough parts in a single message. My message is: save us from saviors of the world. What we get is: Disruption; Sanity checks; Censorship; Blacklisting; Containment; Violence; etc.

        James Putnam

        The leader in my question was Yaneer Bar-Yam.

        James Putnam

        Then you are absolutely wrong, and don't comrehend a thing of what I've written.