You say.... Hierarchical levels exist for human behavior. Say particle level, atomic level, chemical properties level, etc....

But what will guide at the top level...?

What is that top level... ?

Why that level will decide the goals.....?

Dear Garrett,

I enjoyed reading your essay. Despite its brevity, it manages to make an important point: to paraphrase, that while in principle everything is determined by knowing the exact configuration of some fundamental stratum (if such exists) and the laws according to which it behaves, it is not generally the case that this knowledge suffices to effectively derive all facts on higher level strata. There are no shortcuts for complex systems.

While thus everything is ontologically of one piece, epistemically, regarding our knowledge of the world, it is often practically impossible to reduce higher-level behaviours and properties to lower-level interactions (while the former are nevertheless completely determined by the latter). Hence, we observe the emergence of novelty in sufficiently complex systems---where 'sufficiently complex' here may be surprisingly simple: after all, even the three-body problem does not admit of a general analytic solution, and as you note, we tend to have to deal with systems (such as the human brain) which are a little bit more complex than that.

But I would have hoped for a more in-depth discussion of how such emergence may proceed---that is, how one can use the concept of emergence in order to build a bridge between the base physical facts about the universe and the facts about, e.g., human psychology, which seem to differ from the physical facts in kind, and not just in degree. I think the essay would have gained much from a more explicit discussion in this regard.

    Thanks for this comment. You're right that this essay would benefit from an in-depth technical example of how emergence happens from one strata to another, but since there are a multitude of readily available examples within each scientific field, I chose to leave it as an exercise for the reader.

    9 days later

    Hello Mr Lisi,

    You merit a prize also, your technical method is very relevant.I learnt new things, thanks for sharing.

    All the best and good luck in this contest

    8 days later

    Dear Sir,

    We thoroughly enjoyed your essay.

    You are right when you say: "Our fates are not guided by mystical energies or the motions of the planets against the stars". But when you say: "Thought, passion, love... this internal world we experience, including all the meaning and purpose in our lives, arises naturally from the interactions of elementary particles", can you explain the mechanism? Can "unimaginably large numbers of interactions" "make this magic possible"? A mountain is made up of more number of quarks and leptons than human beings, which are subject to the same interactions on a larger scale. Do they exhibit similar emotions? The technological advancements in various sectors has led to data-driven discoveries in the belief that if enough data is gathered, one can achieve a "God's eye view". Data is not synonymous with knowledge. Knowledge is the concepts stored in memory. By combining lots of data, we generate something big and different, but unless we have "knowledge" about the "physical mixing procedure" to generate the desired effect, it may create the Frankenstein's monster - a tale of unintended consequences.

    You talk about emergent strata. But what is emerging? Is it the laws of Nature or their revelation to us? In the present context, the obvious answer is the second. But the first cannot be ignored. We find a set of rules that remain invariant through space and time. The same with objects (matter) and forces (energy). But then, we are also finding hints about their unification. They must have emerged from some common source. Our goal is to find that common source by moving from diversity to unity - not emergence, but convergence.

    Regards,

    basudeba

    Excellent writeup, though brief. Really enjoyed reading it, since it dovetailed very well with my own views regarding emergence. So far, I am yet to find another writeup that matches my views so closely. Somewhat depressing given that there are over 50 submissions already.

    The only place where I would beg to differ would be the outermost layers of emergence being sociology and economics. My essay is premised on the current final layer being the constitutional nation state. Economics can be shown to be embedded within it (as a kind of sub-emergence), but sociology probably can't be. At best, the constitutional setup can be modeled to rise naturally from the normal social interactions of people. I am not too sure, but I don't think that would qualify as sociology.

    Apparently, my essay is unfamiliar territory for most people on this forum. Do you think I should publish it on viXra for better feedback (they have a section for social science). I entered the contest primarily to get feedback on the work so that the mistakes could be rectified and the model could be improved. That doesn't appear likely as of now.

    Warm Regards, Willy

    I enjoyed this essay greatly Garrett..

    You do a really excellent job of summing up exactly what emergence gives us, where differences in kind arise from the shift in scale resulting from the vastness of huge numbers. I talk about a mechanism for emergence in my own essay, but you say almost everything I don't - the nuts and bolts of what it is - and I thank you for your effort. The brevity was refreshing, but also a little disappointing as your unique view on some points might be valuable - had you elaborated.

    Your contribution certainly adds to the mix, in this year's contest. Though brief; your essay has many useful insights. I hope you do well here in the contest, and I hope you enjoy our contributed efforts as well. I feature the octonions and mention E8 prominently, in my essay, so even though I don't mention your work specifically - I do talk about things you know about, or appreciate, and I'd value your opinion.

    All the Best,

    Jonathan

    Dear Anthony,

    A short and good essay on what I would agree as well is the path to the solution. You might be interested in my submission 'Intention is Physical' where I show how higher level goals and objectives can emerge as a tradeoff between energy dissipation and complexity.

    Natesh

    Dear Garrett, this beautiful text would make a great preface for a collection of more technical papers on different emergent phenomena. For the purpose of this contest I think it would have benefited from a more detailed discussion on how goal-oriented behavior fits into this general scheme of emergence. But I like your essay nevertheless. Cheers, Stefan

    Dear Garrett,

    I enjoyed reading your essay, which is well written and contains good arguments in favor of reductionism.

    I consider reductionism should be the default position, and give up only when it is clear that it won't work. In my essay I discuss some possible limitations of reductionism, and I would welcome your critical view on these.

    Best regards,

    Cristi Stoica

    The Tablet of the Metalaw

    Dear Antony,

    What a beautifully written essay! You caught the natural power of emergence in an almost poetic manner. However, science focuses on phenomena that can be mathematically modeled. This tendency has resulted in blind-spots when addressing an understanding of emergency. Within this area of interest there exists much more mystery. It can be beauty itself, but there exist unknowns too. I don't feel that in your essay. Thank you, Graham

    PS. Excellent last sentence... a nod to 'elephants'.

    6 days later
    • [deleted]

    Dear Antony Garret Lisi

    I invite you and every physicist to read my work "TIME ORIGIN,DEFINITION AND EMPIRICAL MEANING FOR PHYSICISTS, Héctor Daniel Gianni ,I'm not a physicist.

    How people interested in "Time" could feel about related things to the subject.

    1) Intellectuals interested in Time issues usually have a nice and creative wander for the unknown.

    2) They usually enjoy this wander of their searches around it.

    3) For millenniums this wander has been shared by a lot of creative people around the world.

    4) What if suddenly, something considered quasi impossible to be found or discovered such as "Time" definition and experimental meaning confronts them?

    5) Their reaction would be like, something unbelievable,... a kind of disappointment, probably interpreted as a loss of wander.....

    6) ....worst than that, if we say that what was found or discovered wasn't a viable theory, but a proved fact.

    7) Then it would become offensive to be part of the millenary problem solution, instead of being a reason for happiness and satisfaction.

    8) The reader approach to the news would be paradoxically adverse.

    9) Instead, I think it should be a nice welcome to discovery, to be received with opened arms and considered to be read with full attention.

    11)Time "existence" is exclusive as a "measuring system", its physical existence can't be proved by science, as the "time system" is. Experimentally "time" is "movement", we can prove that, showing that with clocks we measure "constant and uniform" movement and not "the so called Time".

    12)The original "time manuscript" has 23 pages, my manuscript in this contest has only 9 pages.

    I share this brief with people interested in "time" and with physicists who have been in sore need of this issue for the last 50 or 60 years.

    Héctor

    Dear Antony,

    I esmete hight the perfection, accuracy and brevity of your thoughts in the essay.

    You are absolutely right «Our fates are not guided by mystical energies or the motions of the planets against the stars.»

    In my essay , is shown that if you do not use the mystical properties of matter and fields, then there is every reason to believe «Everything complex emerges from vast numbers of simpler things and their interactions», that the universe is much simpler than it is thought to be.

    I assert that all fundamental interactions have the property of forming a potential pit of stability, as a strong interaction and, therefore, easily are united by a single formalism.

    There is only one essence and the only universal quantum mechanism in the universe that operates on the principle of the classical heat pump (air conditioner) in solitons, and that functions both at the micro- and macro-level of fractal matter. This mechanism allows using a small fraction of the external energy to control in many times big fraction the energy of the system. This mechanism allows «It is the unimaginably large numbers of interactions» in solitons, it is easy to formalize in the levels of fractal matter. This mechanism is also the answer to the questions of this competition.

    However, everyone loves their fiction and "magic", built by their "gods", so very few are able to see the rational grain in other people's ideas because of their illusions.

    My assumptions seem to me simple and logical, but, perhaps, I'm subjective and of course, I would like to know the evaluation of the work from your point of view.

    Kind regards,

    Vladimir

    Dear Antony Garrett Lisi

    I inform all the participants that use the electronic translator, therefore, my essay is written badly. I participate in the contest to familiarize English-speaking scientists with New Cartesian Physic, the basis of which the principle of identity of space and matter. Combining space and matter into a single essence, the New Cartesian Physic is able to integrate modern physics into a single theory. Let FQXi will be the starting point of this Association.

    Don't let the New Cartesian Physic disappear! Do not ask for himself, but for Descartes.

    New Cartesian Physic has great potential in understanding the world. To show potential in this essay I risked give "The way of The materialist explanation of the paranormal and the supernatural" - Is the name of my essay.

    Visit my essay and you will find something in it about New Cartesian Physic. After you give a post in my topic, I shall do the same.

    Sincerely,

    Dizhechko Boris

    11 days later

    Antony,

    Simple, compact and straightforward, but yet you say what needs to be said to meet the criteria. We often forget the staggering volume of particles we contain - "100 trillion atoms in each human cell," and the nature of bonding "number of possible interactions rises exponentially with the number of atoms."

    "this compounding of complexity -- and activity at a higher level -- requires a readily available source of energy to drive it, and a place to dump the resulting heat." -- though the physicist I reference in my essay sees the participation of atoms in this entropy dance.

    "Within a viable environment, at every high level of emergence, complexity and behavior is shaped by evolution through natural selection. For example, human goals, meaning, and purposes exist as emergent aspects in psychology favored by natural selection." I like your clearly pointing out that goals and purpose are emergent aspects favored by natural selection.

    Entropy is an important aspect of my essay with the special concepts of Jeremy England included. I also speculate on field studies to explain dark matter.

    Hope you have a chance to read and comment on mine.

    Jim Hoover

      James, I read your essay and I agree with your emergence and complexity approach, ever your essay is very short.

      I also deal with emergence factor to understand that different laws through our universe:

      Please, consider to have into account my essay which main proposal is:

      "A essay that could revolutionize the future of Cosmological Physics: Aristotle, Newton, Einstein,..."

      The Dynamic Laws of Physics (and Universal Gravitation) have varied over time, and even Einstein had already proposed that they still has to evolve:

      ARISTOTLE: F = m.v

      NEWTON: F = m.a

      EINSTEIN. E = m.c2 (*)

      MOND: F = m.a.(A/A0)

      FRACTAL RAINBOW: F = f (scale) = m.a.(scale factor)

      Or better G (Gravity Constant) vary with the scale/distance due to fractal space-time: G = f ( Scale/distance factor)

      (*) This equation does not correspond to the same dynamic concept but has many similarities.

      4 days later

      Garrett,

      Thank you for your thoughtful essay on the ladder of emergence.

      If you have a moment, could you take a look at my essay, The Cosmic Odyssey of Matter, which presents a formal method for identifying and quantifying the ladder of emergence, from subatomic particles, to living organisms and social groups (summary on page 9).

      This method focuses on the structural connections and configurations of matter, but there is another parallel discussion on properties and interactions, which was left out due to this contest's word/page limits.

      This essay may support your argument that human interactions such as thought and love arise naturally from the interactions of elementary particles, and it also suggests an upper (local) limit to the ladder of emergence.

      link to The Cosmic Odyssey of Matter

      Regards, Ed Kneller

      Antony,

      Since it nears the end, I have been returning to essays I have read to see if I've rated them and discovered I rated it on March 22.

      Hope you have enjoyed the interchange of ideas as much as I have.

      Jim Hoover