The Fundamental Nature of Time by Edwin Eugene Klingman

Ed,

I have long thought that a covariant form of gravitation in which energy density distribution in inertial domains, interacting with each other, could be found that corresponds with results of GR. Having said that, what do you mean that, "Einstein's time dilation is symmetric in nature, but in reality (GPS) it is not." How do you understand the LT to figure into the assemblage of several kinds of maths that is the computational devise called General Relativity? And how was GR applied to the orbitals assigned to GPS satellites which were launched and are continually controlled using Newtonian mechanics? please - jrc

Edwin Eugene,

My program is experimentally-based, too, with an experiment already proposed.

Best,

Tom

Thanks for the response Ed,

I understand your argument as being that the onboard clock mechanism, the oscillation rate of Cesium atoms, is altered in relation to the earth clock by the momentum imparted by acceleration to escape velocity. This would then reflect as you propose that the earth clock is stable in the local inertial frame and the sat-clock slow due to its orbit maintaining the momentum load on the Cesium.

So then the next question is; what in the 45,000 nanosecond/day advancing rate of the sat-clock at its orbital distance. The sum of the lag and lead results in the onboard clock registering 38,000 nanosecond/day ahead of earth time, and of course has to be continuously compensated to within a 50 nanosecond window. If the gravitational force due to energy density interaction, causes the Cesium to vibrate more rapidly, would that shed momentum over time? jrc

Have a good time, Doc,

I have looked at it from a perspective of having a consistent unitary field rationale, but then the complexity that immediately evolves in considering even small numbers in aggregate, require some kind of ontology beyond 'stacking' oranges. The quantity of energy in aggregate fields of specific force densities must also be conceived as differentiating what makes positive from negative charge operate as observed without resorting to "well, I'll just make it rotate". I seriously think that as density characteristics go, what we observe as the earth's 'magnetosphere' measurable way out into space, is actually still at electrostatic density in the aggregate field volume. And probably only of the denser region we associate as *negative* that operates in separation of atomic centers. So I ponder that sort of thing to try to metaphysically develop a measurement ontology that might project as quantities of energy in bulk for the electrostatic, magnetic and gravitational volumes of the entire field. What I found just in a theoretical, background independent, free rest mass; is that smaller volumes in a sphere at higher density, consumes less quantity in that volume than does the variation of density decreasing across larger volumes, as a sphere's volume computes on radial increments. And that's true for any mass quantity sitting on the benchtop in the realm of contemplation. Most of the mass in my computations is in the outermost shell, just at a much lower energy density range. I have no guess at how vast the earth's gravitational limit would be if it were calculated as if in the void.

Ed,

Is there an orbital configuration (not necessarily for the Earth) wherein the effects of GR and SR exactly offset each other? If so, does that provide any insight?

Best Regards and Good Luck,

Gary Simpson

G'morning Ed,

I just ran across this browsing for generalized energy density estimations, and it looks a close fit with what you are doing. It is towards finding a scalar term for gravitational energy density in flat (Euclidean) space, and if its on NASA then they take it seriously. search tag:

https://www.grc.nasa.gov/Math/Mathematical_Thinking/possible_scalar_term_#3

onward! through the fog. jrc

Dear Edwin Eugene,

A fun and imaginative way to introduce the fundamental property(ies?) of time. Bringing popular and well-known physicists together in a situation for a discussion to write an excellent expository essay. thx

However, we know that time essentially imposes a causality criteria on modern theory. That is best discussed in

N. Seiberg, L. Susskind and N. Toumbas, "Space/Time Non-Commutivity and Causality", hep-th/0005015v3, May 2000. I would suggest that you consider that criteria, as it is (partly) solved by the No-Boundary Wave Function.

But there are several other criteria. In fact Karen Crouther wrote a nice essay further delineating the requirements in a modern context.

Among them is the requirement for finite particle representation geometry that replicates QC/ED quantum state algebra. The finitary criteria is necessary for mathematical consistency, per

G. Takeuti, Proof Theory, Dover Publications, 1975.

I explore these further criteria toward a logical foundational formula in my essay, which I encourage you to read as well.

Wayne Lundberg

https://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/3092

Dear Edwin Klingman,

In nature, everything is interconnected and, of course, time is connected with energy. Besides, time is associated with inertia, momentum, movement and space. The question is what connections are short and direct, and which are indirect? Let us consider these connections on the example of an electron. If the internal energy of an electron is kinetic energy, then any point that is part of the electron has zero rest mass and moves at the speed of light. The zero mass of points in a closed volume forms a nonzero mass of the electron. Here the points are very conditional definition - these can be any structures with nonzero dimensions. The motion of points inside an electron is an internal process of an electron. This motion causes a continuous change in the state of the electron, since each point continuously changes its spatial coordinates. The change in the state of the electron forms the proper time of the electron. Now imagine that the gravitational field has one single property - the action on the speed of light, and the smaller the distance to the central mass, the speed of light is less. Let the electron be placed in a gravitational field. In this case, all processes inside the electron slow down in proportion to the decrease in the local speed of light and this leads to a dilation of the electron proper time. In the case of an electron moving relative to the central mass, the average rate of processes inside the electron is additionally slowed down and this leads to an additional expansion of the electron proper time. Both forms of time dilation are observed in the GPS satellite system. In reality, the gravitational field has not one but two fundamental properties, and the combined action of these properties causes various adventures for the electron, including its gravitational acceleration. More details are shown in the essay.

The length contraction caused by gravity can be discussed in the future. Here I note that the rate of time flow in different frames of reference can differ very much, but any two events that are simultaneous in one reference frame are also simultaneous in any other reference frame. So, I give You a high rating.

Best wishes,

Robert Sadykov

Dear Edwin, time is not fundamental. Fundamental is the movement of physical space, which for Descartes is a matter. Time is a synonym of total movement space (ether, as you say). I appreciated highly your essay. You forgot to rate my essay. Look at my essay, FQXi Fundamental in New Cartesian Physics by Dizhechko Boris Semyonovich Where I showed how radically the physics can change if it follows the principle of identity of space and matter of Descartes. Evaluate and leave your comment there. Do not allow New Cartesian Physics go away into nothingness, which wants to be the theory of everything OO.

Sincerely, Boris Dizhechko.

Edwin,

My work treats QCD color and QED charge and spin quanta as co-fundamental. The geometric-state algebra is an exact 1-1 with both existing taken together. I can easily write down a parallel to Dirac algebra, so I am not concerned about hypothetical ways of making QCD quanta appear 'derived'.

I think I should better illustrate what a geometric-state algebra is, starting from simple B&W spinning coins to the more complex geometry required for QCD. Anyway, I'm sure that your space-time diagram treats particles as point-like, which is a mistake. Singularitues are prohibited.

Wayne

Dear Edwin,

In your reply above to Markus Muller, you write that "Physicists have a way of sweeping problems under the rug. For example, Einstein's time dilation is symmetric in nature, but in reality (GPS) it is not."

You make it more explicit a few comments after that:

"Let me address your question about the failure of Einstein's 'space-time symmetry', in which "your clock runs slower than mine, while my clock runs more slowly than yours." This is supposed to be 'observer-dependent' as either can be the "rest frame". Thus, the GPS ground station will see the satellite clocks running slower, while the satellite should see the ground state clock as running slower. This does not happen! The ground state is always the fastest clock. This agrees with my energy-time interpretation of SR, in which clock rates are viewed as energy state dependent and are asymmetrical, but contradicts Einstein's 'space-time symmetry'."

It may well be that your interpretation does reproduce the observed results, but I would respectfully like to point out that Einstein's theory also does! In Einstein's theory, because of the relativity of simultaneity, it is true that two INTERTIAL observers moving at constant speed relative to each other will each consider that the other's clock is running slow --- what you call "space-time symmetry". But if one or both observers are accelerated, this is no longer true. You don't even have to consider General Relativity: in an accelerated frame, your definition of simultaneity changes constantly, and it is quite possible that you will consider the clock in another reference frame to be ticking faster.

A nice discussion of this often misunderstood effect can be found here:

Don Koks (2009) Do Moving Clocks always run slowly?

http://math.ucr.edu/home/baez/physics/Relativity/SR/movingClocks.html

All the best!

Marc

Edwin,

The bartender omits a crucial question in what is an argument about the nature of time. And that is; what physical form does light actually have in a modern tavern? In Ollie and Jim's day the luminiferous aether was seen as a real medium necessary for a warpage taking the form of a transverse wave to conduct a quantity of energy across space, even though it was calculable that it would physically have to be more rarefied than any known gas while having a rigidity comparable to steel. So in your conception that energy density is effectively the universal medium, and that density could be expected to vary in accord with 1/r^2 for gravity to be understood as an interaction of densities of energy; what is the physical form that EMR takes/ does it have a 3D shape/ how does it stay confined to a linear projection that would be necessary for e=hf to be consistently observed?/. If the nature of time is going to be argued on the back of light velocity, and how that can vary with energy density, then the other customers ought to know what light is.

An essay cannot convey all the mathematical arguments you work from, so could you give a wholistic panorama in least technical terminology, of how it all comes together? There has been a great deal of interest in your essay, but its gotten so dissected its like Hilbert space out here. best as always, jrc

Infinite mass is a misnomer for the induction reactance of energy density. In a co-variant domain of one inertial frame, what goes to infinity is the infinitesimal DIFFERENCE at light velocity of that reactance to induction from applied field strength. I've argued that all along. jrc

Helolo dearv Edwin,

I loved and enjoyed your essay, it was a real pleasure to read and I learn in the same time.I liked also your words about the ether, I consider personally a gravitational aether.Congratulations for this general work and this interpretation of time.

Good luck, you merit also a prize like cristi ,congratulations still.