• FQXi Podcast

  • Does Objective Reality Exist? Great Mysteries of Physics Part 4 -- FQxI Podcast

There is a very real difference between absolute and relative measurement. Absolute measurement is one value eg. from x to y, where x and y are fixed starting and ending points. A relative measurement can have different value as x or y is not fixed . making it always necessary to specify the relative context. That is measured from where to where. This is not an original concept it is not a difficult or obscure fact of physics/math. Why are we treating climate change as if global temperature is a singular absolute measurement ? We know the temperature varies and though we may say that the end point ,modern day is a roughly fixed point , the start point of measurement is changeable depending on the choice of the person measuring. That gives a relative measurement. if we choose to measure from the start of industrialization the Earth is still warming after the medieval 'little ice age. co2 rise may be correlated but not causative. It is a limiting factor to plant growth, giving a greener world. Whereas measuring from an estimate of the 'Roman warming' to now shows net cooling. Thank you to Dr. Patrick Moore for some sanity on the issue that is misleading global politicians and the undemocratic WEF. We do not need AI to save us from climate catastrophe. We need to understand the difference between absolute and relative.

    Georgina Woodward
    Global warming panic is based in confusing of the difference between short term local weather, man made local disaster such arson and mismanagement and long term global climate, ignorance of normal, natural planetary climate fluctuation and the difference between a singular unreal absolute measurement and variable, contextual relative measurement.

      Georgina Woodward
      What a load of absolute nonsense. See the Greenpeace USA Statement on Patrick Moore https://www.greenpeace.org/usa/news/greenpeace-statement-on-patric/ :

      "... Patrick Moore has been a paid spokesman for a variety of polluting industries for more than 30 years, including the timber, mining, chemical and the aquaculture industries. Most of these industries hired Mr. Moore only after becoming the focus of a Greenpeace campaign to improve their environmental performance. Mr. Moore has now worked for polluters for far longer than he ever worked for Greenpeace ... Patrick Moore frequently portrays himself as a founder or co-founder of Greenpeace, and many news outlets have repeated this characterization. Although Mr. Moore played a significant role in Greenpeace Canada for several years, he did not found Greenpeace. ..."

          Lorraine Ford
          IRRELEVANT TO WHETHER CLIMATE CHANGE MEASUREMENTS ARE ABSOLUTE OR RELATIVE, You supposedly know some math, do you understand the difference? it has nothing to do with an individual's employment.

              Georgina Woodward
              You are using cancel culture as if disapproval of someone's former employers is evidence that they are incorrect on a specific matter of fact. it is not logical thinking. Climate change depends not just on the variation that has occurred but over what specific period of time. It not only fluctuates but from when, a viewpoint, matters. It affects the value for net change output and whether there has been 9overall cooling or warming found

                  Georgina Woodward
                  Patrick Moore has been a paid spokesman for a variety of polluting industries for more than 30 years, including the timber, mining, chemical and the aquaculture industries. On the other hand, climate scientists, who seem to have a majority opinion on the matter of what is happening to the climate, and why it is happening, are NOT paid spokespeople for polluting industries. Why would I bother to do the figures, when I trust climate scientists to do their specialist jobs?

                  Why don't you stop watching rubbish videos?

                      Lorraine Ford
                      Still as irrelevant as last time you tried that failure to use logic. I'm not expecting you to anything with the figures. is it absolute. or relative? The specialists aren't going to tell you by the way. The video gives some context .

                          Georgina Woodward
                          I notice from the comments you posted yesterday (see below, where I have highlighted parts of your comment), that you are an anthropogenic climate change denier:

                          Global warming panic is based in confusing of the difference between short term local weather, man made local disaster such arson and mismanagement and long term global climate, ignorance of normal, natural planetary climate fluctuation and the difference between a singular unreal absolute measurement and variable, contextual relative measurement.

                              Lorraine Ford
                              It is well known that carbon dioxide is a greenhouse gas. i accept that some warming may occur due to its increase. However i don't think every bit of bad weather can be accounted for by climate change.

                                  Georgina Woodward
                                  The objective truth, is not the fiction predicted by IPCC models. the models are not accurate predictions that fit the incoming data. Name calling doesn't change the facts.

                                      Georgina Woodward
                                      Right now, you seem to think that you are a climate scientist, or better than a climate scientist.

                                      Next, you’ll watch another video and tell us you are a brain surgeon, or better than a brain surgeon.

                                          Lorraine Ford
                                          Confucius said, words to the effect,"' Do not make a mistake into a crime by failure to admit it."
                                          The computers may be very expensive and the models they run very complicated. That does not mean they are actually foretelling the future. The generated fiction rather than objective fact is being used , misleading humanity., Scaring the public, especially children, adversely affecting food production, energy and transportation policies to the detriment of the populous. Costing a fortune but only making things worse for the environment. Horrible lithium mining, non recyclable new' green' technology, people suffering in the cold of winter etc. . co2 encourages plant growth and satellite data shows greening of the Earth is happening.
                                          Cancel culture mentality does not make the failed models suddenly correct or change the data.
                                          Still waiting-relative or absolute?

                                              Georgina Woodward
                                              Unfortunately, Georgina Woodward watched a video, LOTS of crackpot videos, and now she thinks she is a climate scientist, BETTER than a climate scientist.

                                              I'm curious if she also wants to tell the mechanic how to fix her car, or if she wants to tell the dentist how to treat her teeth, or if she feels compelled to tell the nurses and doctors how to treat her medical conditions.

                                                  Lorraine Ford
                                                  Here is some expert testimony by a climate scientist. Knows about the subject. Unlike Lorraine who believes in the media and political sensationalism and fearmongering. Belittling interest in the actual science and real world happening.

                                                      Georgina Woodward
                                                      Consensus opinion (e.g. on climate science, COVID, and anything else you like to name) is something that Georgina Woodward has, apparently, never heard about.

                                                      "A New Book Manages to Get Climate Science Badly Wrong. In Unsettled, Steven Koonin deploys that highly misleading label to falsely suggest that we don’t understand the risks well enough to take action' by Gary Yohe on 13 May 2021, https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/a-new-book-manages-to-get-climate-science-badly-wrong/ .

                                                          Lorraine Ford
                                                          S. Koonin,, in the video, describes using the facts presented by the IPCC itself. Which are at odds with sensationalism fed by members to the press, that does not accurately portray the science itself. He is a climate scientist and knowledgeable about climate modelling. Gary Yohe is an economist and climate economist. An economist's opinion of the writing is neither here nor there. We should be concerned with the facts, not opinion based on hearsay sensationalism Even consensus opinion can be wrong. Agreeing about a fiction does not make it true. S. Koonin points out that most people will not read the original science that is considered for the IPCC report, as there is so much of it.

                                                              Georgina Woodward
                                                              Surprise, surprise: you and I don't get to decide. The consensus opinion of climate scientists is what decides the matter. I can't understand why you are getting so unnaturally excited about this issue. I guess the consensus opinion of climate scientists clashes with your view of the way you think the world ought to work. Too bad about that.

                                                                  Lorraine Ford
                                                                  The actual climate of planet Earth isn't decided by consensus by any group of people. To think climate scientists are in control of the climate and determine how its going to behave, just by agreeing ii daft. It is objective reality , that is observation independent. Very complex and chaotic, not easily modeled, Measurement generates observation products that may be used to generate models. Which may or may not have some semblance to what exists and or happens ,depending on their particular construction.