Leshan, Between Barbour idea on time and mine is quite a difference. Barbour says that there is no time in universe. He also says that there is no motion.

According to my research

1. Physical time is run (tick) of clocks that run in quantum space. There is no physical time behind tick of clocks.

2. Quantum space itself is timeless, space-time is a math model only

3. With clocks we measure frequency, velocity and numerical order of physical events in quantum space.

4. Experiencing in linear time is result of inner time that belongs to the mind.

So I do not remove time from physics, my vision is to proper understand time: time is man invented physical reality for measuring physical events.

My life experience is that only conscious observer can understand that and because of that I send to FQXI my essay. Conscious observer is perfectly aware of inner time and this allows him proper understanding of time.

If FQXI would give me some award I would be most happy because this would help me to study PhD on my theme.

Yours amrit

PS

Leshan

Thus, your essay is outside of our present essay contest. Also your essay has logical contradictions. You declare first that space-time do not exist. Then you agree that 'According to loop quantum gravity, space itself consists of quanta' It contradicts one another.

Amrit

Space-time is math model only; it does not exist as a physical reality.

Cosmic Space itself consists of quanta of space.

Physical time is run of clocks and run of clocks cannot be part of space. Run of clocks happens in space. So space is timeless. Idea of "foam of space-time" is for me utterly wrong.

The question "What is Time?" is deeply related to the question "Who is the observer?" In physics today observer is searching exclusively outside physical world. He is not searching how his mind influences his experience of physical world. For deeper understanding of physical world observer needs understanding of how his mind influences scientific experience. Scientist perceive physical reality with senses, than perceived information get processed by the mind, finally experience happen. By searching inside observer discovers that his mind functions in a frame of space-time that is mind creation. He becomes aware that physical time is run of clocks merely and that quantum space into which change run is timeless.

This is insight of my research and there is no objection to it. All experimental data support it. Recent brain research is confirming that experience of change consequently in linear time is result of neuronal dynamics of the brain.

Physics should be sincere and drop idea of space-time being fundamental arena of the universe.

I do not say as Barbour says that time is an illusion. I say that the idea space-time being physical reality is an illusion. For me time as a clocks run is man created physical reality and is consistent part of physics and will remain in physics for ever.

It is a big intellectual jump in incomprehension that there is no time behind run of clocks. This simply means that now is eternity itself. All experimental data confirm that fact. So there is no hindrance to accept that as a standpoint of physics. We have to leave behind our idea that Einstein achievements are pillars of physics that will never be improved. He was aware that time do not exists as a physical reality into which change run. He has tried to "hide" to incorporate time in space. Because of that in SR imaginary 4-th coordinate is a product of clock tick t, light speed and imaginary number i

X - i x c x t

Mathematical Imaginary coordinate cannot be physical. But his hidden device did not succeed. Physics today see space-time as physical reality and does not take in consideration that there is no experimental evidence for that. This mistake will be now improved.

yours amrit

Schrödinger cat in box is an interesting question. In this thought experiment cat remains in a box one hour. Clocks are "ticking" 60x60 seconds and than we open the box.

When atom decay happens cat is dead, until atom decay do not happen cat is alive. Cat in box can not be both simultaneously alive and dead. Cat is alive or dead before we open the box. It is not that with opening box cat will be alive or dead. Opening of the box has no relation to cat life. Relation to the cat life has atom decay. And atom decay has no relation to the opening of the box.

If cat is alive when we open the box this means decay of atom did not happen in one hour.

If cat is dead when we open the box we can do autopsy of the cat and calculate when atom has decayed. Cat biochemical reactions are natural clock "tick". With autopsy we can see when (if) cat as biochemical clock has stopped.

Cat cannot be both simultaneously: alive and dead.

Cat does not live or dies in space-time.

Cat is living and dies in timeless quantum space only.

  • [deleted]

  • Post #67

'Space-time is math model only; it does not exist as a physical reality'

Amrit, the math model cannot have a PHYSICAL STRUCTURE! For example a mathematical point cannot have a physical structure because it is a math model only. Since your essay affirms that 'According to loop quantum gravity, space itself consists of quanta' consequently space-time is a physical structure. Since space-time has a physical structure (quanta) then it is not a mathematical model but a real phenomenon. Therefore space-time really exist.

Thus your essay has the logical contradictions. You declare first that space-time do not exist. Then you agree that 'According to loop quantum gravity, space itself consists of quanta.' It contradicts one another.

Another error above: I'm surprised about your declaration that space-time and cosmic space are different things. The cosmic space is the same space-time!

'Idea of 'foam of space-time' is for me utterly wrong'

Spacetime foam is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955 [Wikipedia]. On a small (Planck) scale, foamy bubbles result from the uncertainty principle, which allows virtual particles to spontaneously pop into and out of existence. Thus your essay and your timeless idea contradict to quantum mechanics. There are a lot of papers about foam of space-time published in the best mainstream Journals. There are indirect EXPERIMENTAL proofs that space-time foam really exist. (The Airy ring around the image of a distant quasar-like object).

'Physical time is run of clocks and run of clocks cannot be part of space' Run of clocks happens in space. So space is timeless. Idea of 'foam of space-time' is for me utterly wrong.

The concept 'Physical time is run of clocks' is erroneous because it is not the universal concept. There is no motion and clocks inside of a black hole. Therefore your concept is not universal and erroneous, because you cannot describe all time phenomena.

There is a logical error in your declaration above: 'Run of clocks happens in space. So space is timeless'. I do not see any logical way how to derive your timeless concept from the first proposition. In the same way I can write:

'Run of clocks happens in space. So space is a real phenomenon' Thus your theory is not a logical theory, but a collection of arbitrary hypotheses. I do not see any logical deduction and reasoning in your essay.

Besides there are logical contradictions in your essay: first you agree that 'According to loop quantum gravity, space itself consists of quanta' Then you write above: Idea of 'foam of space-time' is for me utterly wrong. The theory with contradictions cannot be true. Therefore your essay and your timeless idea is wrong.

Leshan,

Math model has a physical structure. Physical structure of space-time is neuronal dynamics of the brain. Space-time is mind invention - creation.

Physical time as a run of clocks is also man invention in order to measure change in quantum space that itself is timeless. Run of clocks is not part of quantum space.

There is no contradiction in my vision. My vision resolves many contradictions, read my article.

A question for you: if space-time is physical reality tell me exactly how space and time are related (coupled) into space-time.

Yours amrit

  • [deleted]

  • Post #69

Dear Amrit,

Your affirmation violates the logic. Please search Google for an example of imaginary mathematical abstraction with physical structure. All mathematical abstractions do not have physical structures. For example a point, line, plane are mathematical imaginary abstractions therefore they do not have any structures. If space-time is an math abstraction, it cannot have any physical structure. The mathematical abstractions cannot have a physical structure! Please show me an example of imaginary mathematical abstraction with physical structure. Another case is when physicists creates a mathematical model for a REAL physical object. But there the object is a Real object by definition.

'if space-time is physical reality tell me exactly how space and time are related (coupled) into space-time' I see I must write another essay better than yours to prove that space-time really exist. Space-time are 3 dimensions and time is 4 dimension. All these dimensions exist inside of space cells. Therefore space and time is coupled inside of space cell. I have the experimental proof: if you slow down the time then length contraction appear also. Because both space and time are coupled. You cannot create the length contraction without time dilation. Both time dilation and length contraction are coupled effects; therefore space and time are coupled effects.

Dear readers,

Please comment this affirmation - the imaginary mathematical structure have a physical structure.

Sincerely

Leshan

  • [deleted]

  • Post #70

Dear readers,

A error in the last proposition: Please comment this affirmation - the imaginary mathematical abstraction have a physical structure.

Sincerely

Leshan

  • [deleted]

  • Post #72

Dear Amrit,

Your example about brain shows a real phenomenon, but not an abstraction. The brain and main are real phenomena, but not abstraction. If you destroy the brain, you destroy the mind. Therefore your example describes a real phenomenon, not an abstraction.

Space-time foam is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955. Your affirmation that space-time is an abstraction contradicts quantum mechanics and logic.

About your attachment (paper) from EJTP:

1. Your paper is not a logical theory, it contains the arbitrary postulates. Your postulates appear from nothing, for example: 'The movement of the pendulum has no duration' Do you have any deduction or logical reasoning for this proposition? It is a proposition that appears from nothing. This method is good for creation of fairy tales and stories but not for scientific papers. Every movement of the pendulum has duration and we can measure this duration.

2. 'space-time is a mental form through which the movement of the pendulum is experienced'

Space-time can exist without mind and conscious. The humans appeared some (millions) years ago, but current theory and observations suggest that the universe is between 13.5 and 14 billion years old. The most part of his time Universe exist without human mind and conscious.

3. 'There is no experimental evidence that physical space itself has three dimensions'

The existence of 3-dimensional objects like cubes is a proof that space itself has three dimensions.

Sincerely,

Leshan

Leshan

1. Motion in the universe has no duration on is own. We give it a sense of duration by measuring them. Duration is in the brain means in the mind. In physical world it is only motion, frequency, velocity and numerical order.

2. Something is old only I a sense of numerical order of clock tick. Universe is timeless, universe is NOW.Clock tick in timeless quantum space.

3. We can define position of an object in cosmic space with three dimensions. This does not necessary mean that space itself is three-dimensional. We can observe in cosmic space only distances and not three-dimensional space.

You did not answer my question ?

A question for you: if space-time is physical reality tell me exactly how space and time are related (coupled) into space-time.

yours amrit

  • [deleted]

  • Post #74

Dear Amrit,

'Clock tick in timeless quantum space'

I have published a lot of arguments against this proposition but you don't take it into account. It is no sense to publish any new objections since you repeat the same proposition-dogma. It is not a logical discussion. I write for you new arguments and ideas and I don't see any responses; instead you repeat always the same proposition-dogma about timeless space and clocks. Since you cannot defend your essay, consequently it is erroneous. Imagine that I'll repeat continuously: space really exists, space really exists, space really exists, space really exists... It is not a physics discussion, it is not logic. You are now at Physics forum!

'Motion in the universe has no duration on is own. We give it a sense of duration by measuring them. Duration is in the brain means in the mind'

Amrit, all planets revolve around the Sun billions of years without the presence of observers and mind. The time phenomenon exists even inside of black holes. Do black holes contain observers and mind? Thus time phenomenon is able to exist without observers. Since you give it a sense of duration by measuring them, it is not a proof that time do not exist without observers. If Earth and humanity disappears, the universe will continue its usual 'life. The planets are able to revolve around the Sun without the mind and observers. The most part of its time Universe exist without the mind and humanity. Thus your opinion that 'duration is in the brain means in the mind' is an error.

'A question for you: if space-time is physical reality tell me exactly how space and time are related (coupled) into space-time'

The space is 3 spatial dimensions, and time is a 4-th temporal dimension. All these dimensions are coupled inside of quanta of space. The proof: time dilation is always accompanied by length contraction. It is the proof that space and time are coupled.

Sincerely,

Leshan

Leshan

Fourth dimension of math model of space-time is X4 = i c x t.

i - imaginary number

c - light speed

t - tick of clock in timeless quantum space

Yes universe run without the observer.

With development of intelligent beings there beings discover that that UNIVERSE CHANGE, not in time, universe just changes Time is a measure of change. I cannot help. It is so.

Yours amrit

PS

Leshan, the key terms of physics are "energy" and "change" i.e. "motion". Smallest change i.e. motion is when photon pass distance of Planck distance.

Cosmic space into which stellar objects exists is definitely a foam of energy about which we do not know so much, because leading opinion for last 100 years was that space is not fundamental, space is result, a consequence of matter. With idea of quantum space we are getting closer to the truth.

In the universe there is only one energy that has different forms: cosmic space, matter, electromagnetic energy, mind, consciousness.

The question is here how all this forms are coupled. This is main task of physics. Regarding space and matter is interesting that space is inside of matter too, space do not finish where material object starts. This means that in terms of dimensions space is 4 dimensional and matter is 3 dimensional. 4-th dimension of space is definitely not time, there is no one experimental data proving existence of space-time being physical reality.

Time is clocks run. With clocks we measure energy flux. Motion i.e. change is fundamental characteristic of the energy. Energy cannot be still. Energy is in constant change, transformation.

So there is no place for time being fundamental physical reality. Time (clocks) are man invented tools of physics.

time is tick of clocks, yours amrit

Leshan

where is cosmic space is X4 = i x c x t ?

yours amrit

PS

Leshan

Do you have any experimental proofs for your timeless space?

Amrit: All experimental data confirm that space is timeless and physical time is tick of clocks.

  • [deleted]

  • Post #79

Leshan please tell me only one experimental data that is against my theory ?

I have proof because we all see that clocks run in cosmic space and we all know that space-time is a math model only.

There is no one evidence time (clocks run) being part of space.

If you have one tell it, show it.

yours amrit

  • [deleted]

  • Post #80

Amrit, you wrote:

'Smallest change i.e. motion is when photon pass distance of Planck distance'

It is another contradiction. The existence of the Planck distance is the property of SPACE, consequently space-time really exist.

Your theory must have experimental proofs. For example I proposed the theory of absolute vacuum and an experiment able to prove my theory. I need two atomic clocks only to prove my theory. Do you have any experiment able to prove your timeless theory?

Amrit: All experimental data confirm that space is timeless and physical time is tick of clocks. I have proof because we all see that clocks run in cosmic space and we all know that space-time is a math model only.

Leshan: It is not the proof, this proposition prove nothing. Because this proposition allows inversion: we all see that clocks run in cosmic space and we all know that space-time really exists.

Clocks and motion do not exist inside of black holes, but the time phenomenon exists even inside of black holes. It is the proof that your concept about clocks is not universal and erroneous. The correct time theory must be able to describe all time phenomena.

Amrit: Leshan please tell me only one experimental data that is against my theory?

Leshan: 1) The Casimir effect is the experimental data against your timeless theory. The appearance of attractive force between two surfaces in an empty vacuum is a proof that space-time really exist. If space-time is a mathematical abstraction, why the attraction force appears between two conducting plates?

2) The existence of virtual particles is the experimental data against your timeless theory. The space-time 'boils', therefore appear virtual particles. The imaginary mathematical space-time is not able to boil and create virtual particles;

3) The existence of space-time foam is the proof that space and time really exist. Space-time foam is a concept in quantum mechanics, devised by John Wheeler in 1955 [Wikipedia]. The mathematical abstractions cannot have a physical structure. You deny the existence of the space-time foam using only your proposition 'Clock tick in timeless quantum space'. Do you think this proposition allows you to destroy the quantum mechanics?

  • [deleted]

  • Post #81

Leshan in black hole QS quanta of space still exist. They vibrate with their basic frequency.

Vibration of QS is: they change their electric potential from negative to positive in a Planck time.

Vibration of QS is a natural clock to measure other frequencies, velocities and numerical order of events.

This natural clock is "ticking" for eternity. This natural clock has no creation.

All happens in the quantum space that vibrates with basic frequency.

Science has invented clocks to measure events. So it is a big illusion to think that clocks measure some physical time in which events run.

I hope this is clear now.

yours Amrit