Jason

Thanx, I agree, but I've discovered a telling thing about the wavelength frequency relationship; If refraction into a moving medium conserves frequency and energy by changing wavelength (Doppler shift) angle and light speed between frames (the same as into different refractive index media), then we've found the problem with SR, resolved it and unified physics with Huygens-Fresnel, even without a background matter field. Can you see how?

"Every particle immersed in an ocean of virtual photons" I feel you're on the wrong track, until you add the relative motion function. With no motion wrt a surrounding field its surrounded by 1/137th fine structure, at 0.999%c it fills the LHC tube at 1013/m-3. oscillating at gamma.

That's linked with para 1, and frequency modulation with conserved spin axis. it resolves the paradox of the constancy of 'c' irrespective...etc. It's right under your nose, just follow Braggs advice. (my Nobel winning paper is almost done!).

Best of luck with that

Peter

7 days later
  • [deleted]

Hi Peter,

Sorry I haven't gotten back sooner. You present a lot to think about. I do wish you the best with your Nobel Winning paper; I'd like to read it, even if it's not finished.

I've been thinking about photons, light, and high frequency circuits. I was thinking about how phase lock loops work.

Sorry, my break is over. I'll continue later.

  • [deleted]

Hi Peter,

So every photon is received with velocity c. That probably just means that the phase velocity c = lamda*f, always occurs. In other words, the measured frequency and wavelegth of a photon will alway adhere to c = lamda*f. This would be true no matter what. It doesn't matter if the photon frequency has to be increased or descreased to account for gravity or relativistic motion.

It is true that we really have no idea what gravity is. We do know that gravitational potentials exist. We also know that photons that have to climb out of a potential well will lose energy and frequency. It is also true that light can follow a curved path due to gravity.

"If refraction into a moving medium conserves frequency and energy by changing wavelength (Doppler shift) angle and light speed between frames (the same as into different refractive index media), then we've found the problem with SR, resolved it and unified physics with Huygens-Fresnel, even without a background matter field. "

If the medium/frame is moving, then won't it be at a higher energy? Now, energy and frequency are conserved, of course. If you shine a laser on a spaceship moving away at 0.2c, the received frequency, measured on the spaceship, has less energy because the waves come less frequently.

Likewise if you shine a laser on a spaceship travelling towards you, at 0.2c, the spaceship crosses each wave more quickly, so the frequency goes up.

Yes, I know that length contraction and time dialation effects might contribute. Uh, er... what do you think?

  • [deleted]

What happened to the font?

Bizzzare. I think we're now communicating in superscript!

Perhaps that suits us.

"So every photon is received with velocity c."

No, not at all - you missed the point, which cantains the answer to life, the universe and everything! It's this;

Every photons is EMITTED at 'c'. - but will be received at any speed subject to the relative velocity of the medium.

Just think carefully about that for the moment. The fine structure at the boundaries of our eyes and all our measuring instruments is electrons. If we jump on our jet bike and shoot off towards some light at 0.2c, our fine 'boundary' structure will receive the photons at 1.2c, but pass them on to us at 'c', (blue shifted). If we go the other way? They arrive at 0.8c but we still get them passed on to us (red shifted to conserve the energy) by our fine structure, at 'c'. Simple my dear Watson.

Do please for Pete's sake tell me you can now see the implications on SR of a quantum mechanism for constancy of 'c' !!

Ohterwise I shall consider abandoning my search for intelligent life.

Peter

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Please fix the script!!!

  • [deleted]

sadfdf a;lfdja;ljfdk

  • [deleted]

hey I think I fixed it.

  • [deleted]

Maybe just one more time

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Peter,

I think you were right about the frequency modulation stuff. For any inertial frame, the frequency will vary from f=0Hz (DC) to f = 10^19Hz (gamma rays). I think my idea makes more sense, photons are both emitted and absorbed with velocity c.

[math]c = \lambda f[/math]

There is no infinite universal Cartesian coordinate system that we can't find. Space-time results because photons are being transmitted and received, even if we don't directly see them, they're there. The frequency and wavelength can and will change to accommodate differences in velocity and gravity. Spatial relationships have to be enforced by the fixed velocity of light. However, gravitational red/blue shifting as well as Doppler frequency shifting can occur to accommodate these circumstances. This is what ties together gravitational potential energy and momentum.

I have to disagree with you about the idea of an underlying medium. If it exists, it cannot be measured. The Michelson-Morley experiment proved that. More likely, it is an ocean of virtual photons that across the full range of frequencies from f = 0 to gamma rays. I would entertain the idea that this ocean of photons is not filled with energy, but that would be speculation on my part.

I hope this helps. Or if you disagree, tell me where I've gone astray.

Best wishes,

Jason

    Hmm.

    "..tell me where I've gone astray."

    You need to heed Braggs advice "its not new facts but the way we think about facts that's important", and Einsteins; "We can't solve our problems with the same way of thinking that created them". Take a step back and re think;

    "photons are both emitted and absorbed with velocity c."

    Imagine a person has a rocket bike, and the fine structure boundary electrons of his eyes. If he is at rest, the electron will both receive and emitt the photon at 'c'. (on the same vector - as HFP) so the signal is passed into his eye at 'c'. However;

    If he then shoots off on his bike towards the source, the photons will be absorbed at c v, but still emitted into his eye at 'c'. He therefore sees them at 'c', but Doppler shifted.

    If he heads away from the source, they'll be absobed at c - v, but still of course emitted at 'c'. So he sees them at 'c', but further apart (red shifted).

    That is exactly how Frequency Modulation works. The wavelength is altered back to the original by a preset oscillator frequency, emitting at 'c' whatever relative speed the signal is absorbed at!

    The fine structure (constant at rest) electrons of measuring instruments does exactly the same.

    That's how energy and frequency are conserved in Huygens Principle and Fourier Optics - by changing the speed and wavelength, refracting the wavefront angle.

    Ergo; CSL is explained with a quantum process, unifying physics and removing all the paradox from Special Relativity.

    If you still dont see it, take Bragg and Einsteins advice; Clear your mind of preconception, take 3 steps back in your mind for a better 'overview' and visualise it, picture it in your mind, as you read through it again really slowly.

    Does that work?

    Peter

    • [deleted]

    Hi Peter,

    What do you think of this?

    Since the idea that rapid and repeating frequency shifting generates an acceleration field is based upon the Equivalence Principle, how does one describe the Equivalence Principle in mathematical format? My conclusion is reasoned with logic, not mathematics.

    I can say that the final photon energy equals the initial photon energy less the gravitational potential energy changed.

    (1) [math]E_f = E_i - U_{grav}[/math]

    From this, I could say that the change in photon energy equals a change in the gravitational potential.

    (2) [math]E_f - E_i = -U_{grav}[/math]

    Since the photon energy equals the frequency multiplied by the Planck constant, I can write,

    (3) [math]E_f - E_i = h(f_f - f_i)[/math]

    Then it follows that a change in gravitational potential energy must equal a change in frequency if I substitute (3) into (2) to get,

    (4)[math]h(f_f - f_i) = -\Delta U_{grav}[/math]

    I can rewrite equation (4) to get an equation for the Planck constant,

    (5) [math]h = -\frac{\Delta U_{grav}}{\Delta f}[/math]

    Equation (5) states that the Planck constant equals the change in gravitational potential energy with respect to the photon's change in frequency. If we check the units, Planck constant is in joule-sec and the frequency derivative of the gravitational potential energy has units of joules/Hz= joule-sec.

    In effect, I have the frequency derivative of a gravitational potential equal to the Planck constant.

    Does this move us any closer to a unified physics theory?

    • [deleted]

    Peter,

    I think there exists an available bandwidth everywhere in space. This bandwidth is 10^19Hz. I think gravity might be a frequency shift, but the details are still vague right now.

    8 days later
    • [deleted]

    Peter,

    Are you still there?

    Hi Jason

    Sorry, very busy, finishing my paper, designing stuff and working on boats. I also couldn't get a handle on the possible importance of your equation.

    You've also missed the relavance of mine. Can you do some imagining for me for a moment?;

    A spacecraft with a large solar panel is doing 'v' on it's way to Mercury. On the face of the solar panel is the normal fine structure of electrons.

    As it heads towards the sun it closes with the photons (or waves if you like) at c v, they're absorbed by the electrons and re emitted on the same path into the panels (refracted and Doppler [blue] shifted as appropriate), at 'c' wrt the electrons.

    The 'c' is of course the new local 'c' of the Solar panels.

    Ifthe laws of physics are the same for all mass and all electrons, anything with mass will therefore always measure all light at 'c' no matter how fast it's going and in which direction.

    On it's way back to earth going away from the sun the waves/photons will be red shifted by the process but still be sent on into the solar panels (or any measuring instrument) at the local 'c' of the instrument.

    Is it really only me, a handful of others and kids under 8yrs old who can see that this finally removes all paradox and unifies SR and QFT!??

    If you're interested (which the PR journals of course were not without even a glance; http://vixra.org/abs/1007.0022

    Do please let me know how you get on, and do ask any questions. I'm having athink about where your standard Planck gravitational frequency might fit in.

    Very best wishes

    Peter

    • [deleted]

    Dear Peter,

    You and I are both doing the same thing. We each see something that is so blatantly obvious that we are dumbfounded that other people can't see it. I am confident that you wrote this blog and your paper as concisely and articulately as is ever possible. From the point of view of someone reading it for the first time and/or from another point of view, it is like drinking from the fire hydrant where every drop takes thought. I am grateful to see my reflection.

    First, it sounds like you are challenging the Michelson-Morley experiment. Frame dragging, which I'm not sure if they proved it or not, but it's probably true; frame dragging would explain the Michelson-Morely result which wrongfully struck down the aether theory. Stuff about normal fine structure of electrons; what does that do? Blue shift occurs and then everything is ok.

    Next, spacecraft with solar panel moves at velocity v, light strikes solar panel from the sun. Electrons detect sun's photons to travel at c+v velocity.

    On the way back from the sun, photons arrive at c-v, normal fine structure of electrons stuff happens, red-shift and electrons arrive at velocity c.

    Question: how would the electrons know how fast the light is moving? How do they measure it? Do they carry stopwatches and rulers?

    If I really can trust my ruler and stopwatch, then why do black holes take forever to swallow up debris? What I mean is why does time dilation occur? Why does length contraction occur? Why do atomic clocks on airplanes run faster than atomic clocks down here on earth? How do I know that any star, planet or galaxy is as far away as cosmologists tell me it is? There is only one velocity that I trust. It is the velocity of light. I believe that c is absolute and is an inherent characteristic of every photon. A photon is like an email with information content. It leaves something and it arrives somewhere. Can information travel FTL? Sure! Yes! Can it do so without requiring a hyper-space? Uh! Can the universe give contradictory results about how far away a planet or galaxy is? Yes.

    In my opinion, the aether is an invisible ocean of virtual photons, all of which are moving at the speed of light c, but in all directions. Did the super black hole of M87 spit out a jet that traveled superluminally? The small angle explanation sounds really lame and stupid. But it's 100 million light years away; it's hard to be sure.

    Why is the normal fine structure of electrons so important to you're theory? I'll wager a guess. These are the natural characteristics of virtual photons, super-strings and/or the wiggly objects out of which physics and the universe are constructed. When they bubble up from the aether, the universe is implemented with those characteristics.

    Does this help?

    • [deleted]

    Dear Peter,

    Here is my best guess. The universe is an ocean of light, of virtual photons that are constantly emitted and absorbed. They have descriptive characteristics equivalent to the fine structure constant relationships. As a bubbling ocean of light, they will give the appearance of a solid state crystal tessellation of space-time by virtue there exp^(kx-wt) nature. This optical illusion of a tessellated crystal provides the architecture needed to permit quarks, gluons and leptons to exist. The fact that information content can continually occur, called the past, is a truly amazing feature.

    Another characteristic of virtual photons is that they built potential energy topographies whose gradients lead to forces. This characteristic is capable of creating a force so strong that light cannot escape. This apparent contradiction will probably lead to a need for hyper-space physics.

    Hi Jason

    We must keep trying. You said;

    "First, it sounds like you are challenging the Michelson-Morley experiment. .. frame dragging would explain the Michelson-Morely result which wrongfully struck down the aether theory. Stuff about normal fine structure of electrons; what does that do? Blue shift occurs and then everything is ok."

    It agrees with M&M, as did Stokes 'Ether Drag' (Michelson wrote to Bell specifically saying that), but Lodge screwed Stokes by making a relativistic frame mistake in his 1893 paper allowing in the Lorentz nonsense. Here's the paper finally posted; http://vixra.org/abs/1007.0022

    Electron 'Fine Structure' Constant is 1/137th of all mass at rest, our outer 'boundary' layer. No-one knows why, or what it does.

    But First; To simplify, We must first define the problem we're addressing. It's the problem M&M and all had in the 17-1800's, which SR was dreampt up to solve.;; How come we always measure light at exactly 'c' no matter how fast and which way we're moving? and, how come it crosses a given distance of space in the same time no matter how fast and which way the emitter is moving??

    Lorentz and SR's solution left loads of paradoxes and won't unify with QM. There's a logical answer that's so simple we can't even see it;

    The fine structure of electrons around mass (including ourselves, our planet, etc) convert it to our own local 'c' (Doppler shifting it accordingly) when it meets us.

    To achieve this electrons simply do what we know they do; Absorb incoming photons (at whatever relative rate they arrive at) and send them on, into the main mass, at the electrons local 'c'. They don't give a damn how rapidly they arrived, their oscillations send them on their way at 'c' whatever!

    Ergo, our main mass will always receive light at 'c', whatever speed it's crossed space at wrt us!

    This also works with pure wave signal energy, where extra oscillating particles are propagated locally, as Huygens Priciple, to do the FM speed conversion job.

    Background fields are allowed again, which then also explains why it goes at 'c' through space without regard to the speed of the emitter.

    The dense clouds of virtual photons only exist at the boundaries between these 'infinitely many' local spaces, or 'inertial fields'. The faster the relative speed the thicker the cloud, just like in the LHC.

    If you still don't see it, imagine yourself back at Junior school and read it again, closing your eyes and thinking for 2 minutes between each sentence.

    This would only change the whole basis of physics forever a bit.

    Best of Luck.

    Peter

    • [deleted]

    Hi Peter,

    I'm still reading the article and trying to absorb what you're saying. I am certain that we do disagree. I am not certain if it is because one of us is wrong, or more likely, we are looking at the same thing from different points of view.

    First off, I believe that the velocity of light, c, is an absolute. I believe that the phase velocity, given below,

    [math]c = \frac{\omega}{\vec{k}} = \omega \lambda[/math]

    is built into the photon in such a way that everything obeys this equation. The wavelength and frequency can change in response to differences in velocity, potential energy, or gravity, but that this equation is even more fundamental than the distance from Boston to LA.

    It sounds to me like you are saying that the fast approach towards the sun, at 0.5c will cause the photons to arrive at the detector at 1.5c. I believe that the photons will tell the electrons,

    "shut up electron! just calculate the frequency and lambda. There is no 1.5c. You got that! SLAP!!!"

    Then the photon will deride the electron about how his ruler and stopwatch don't count for horse hockey.

    Gotta go to work. What do you think?

    Hi Jason

    Even simpler than that.

    If the electrons complain when the photons arrive at a rate of 1.5 instead of 1 per 'c' the photons will say; "just get on with it, we're staying at 'c' and not changing our formula, so just emit us into your mass closer together,"

    So the electrons do just that, preserving 'c' and the total energy, but by blue shifting the light (emitting them at a faster rate but at 'c').

    But you've still missed the $64m point. The mass itself (which the fine structure boundary electrons belong to) then always absorbs the signal at 'c'.

    i.e. Light changes speed between all inertial frames (anything in relative motion) to retain your formulae and 'c' locally within each one.

    This more simply solves the problem SR was dreamed up to solve!!!! It means we don't need Lorentz- FitzGerald contraction etc etc. and all the paradoxes of SR.!! But the SR postulates themselves are still correct, andit unifies them with Quantum Physics. This is what has been called the Holy Grail of physics.

    Please please tell me you can think this through!

    Peter