Brian, my last comment addressed your "change enroute without physical intervention."

Entanglement experiments imply that local realism is false because they violate Bell's inequality based on D'Espagnat's 3 assumptions: local realism, Einstein locality, and logical induction, as you pointed out. But if properties change en route (due to interaction with the apparatus) then violation of Bell's inequality does not imply that properties don't exist until measured.

And if properties do exist, then all relevant properties are expected to conserve momentum and energy. (As you say: "ensure a constant spin zero" or "Keep one black if the other is white.") But then there is no necessary 'non-localism' since the existence of conserved properties means that if one is known, then the other is known. There's no need for 'spooky' communications between Bob and Alice's locations.

Why is this not obvious? Because the Copenhagen 'superposition of states' inherently does away with realism in favor of mysticism, claiming that quantum objects are 'ghostly' until measured. More than anything else, this probably derives from the two-slit experiments, but the same C-field 'pilot wave' that I claim interacts with beam splitters, etc, would also interact with two slit apparatus, potentially explaining interference observed by experiment.

As to your point 8: "Superposition. Objective entities cannot spin in two directions at once as quantum entities do...". The physical fact is that a magnetic field can only measure along one axis at once, and this has been distorted by probabilistic representation into spinning in two directions at once.

There seems to be inconsistency here. On the one hand, "properties cannot change en route without physical intervention" while on the other hand, "properties are in a 'state of superposition' described only statistically by a probability wave function. If only probability applies, why can't things change? One assumes that they are changing until the superposed wave function is measured, 'collapsing' the wave function (ie, the in-transit object) into a real, albeit unpredictable state.

The necessity for probability implies an essential randomness. You discuss randomness in your point 6, to which I'll return later, but if things can't change, then they are predictable, and if they are only statistically predictable, who's to say they can't change?

(This is a logical discussion. I contend they do change upon contact with the apparatus.)

Edwin Eugene Klingman

    Brian

    Thanks for a superbly written essay. I wish my writing skills matched yours, which demonstrate how any hypothesis can be well argued. But I'd like to take up your challenge in support of Local Reality and Edwin's view. First you'd need to read my own essay - and discussions in Edwins thread.

    I start from experimental science. Scattering means photons are not* conserved, i.e the signal is modulated and or polarised. This may be by detector, beam splitter, barbers shop, or the lightest of plasma or gas particle densities. *Chance means some will survive intact. This process itself allows a topographical 'ether' by which those may still communicate.

    All reality is subjective. This is inductive logic. Every* point on a Schrodinger sphere carries a different signal. You causality 'grid engine' keeping photons in order collapses instantly with Einstein Lensing. The discrete field model of reality (DFM) predicted lensing light delays way over the few days expected. We've recently found over 3 YEARS delay! To clarify; photon 2, emitted later, arrived here over 3 years before photon 1.

    http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/cosmicvariance/2009/07/13/guest-post- evalyn- gates-on-cosmic-magnification-or-invasion-of-the-giant-blue-space-amoebas/ MACS J1149.5-2223

    I also show how Relativity has simply been poorly understood and use a quantum mechanism to logically complete it (only ever road blocked by Bells iniquity!).

    I'll follow with an 'off the cuff' response to your other points. I hope you enjoy the determinedly 'feet on the ground' stance of my own essay, though it is based on a reality only ever subjective!

    Peter

      Brian, Your points - off the top of my head!

      1. VR can only work with pre-ordained hard and software (I prefer a wave form expansion & contraction anyway).

      2. 'C'. Objective and local realities MUST have limits or they are neither local or real. I also show how our personal subjective realities must also have the same limit. (It's so real and simple you'll kick a rock).

      3. Planck Limits. Same point as above, although I show how the condensate, 'medium' not counting as mass, may indeed have structure below the plank limit.

      4. Non-Locality. Just a misunderstanding. And the definition of 'impossible' is that it hasn't been done yet. It's being done 1,000 times a day. Reality has no issue with that when a real 'field' link is possible.

      5. Malleable Space Time. Pure conjecture. I show how mass and motion alters space and time in both objective and subjective realities. This simplest of videos may help;http://fqxi.org/data/forum-attachments/1_YouTube__Dilation.htm

      6. Randomness. We judge by our own standards. We have not yet started to conceive how big and complex our real causal world is. ("1,000th of 1%")

      7. Empty Space. I've just re filled it and shown how simply it can work.

      8. Superposition. 'Spin' is NOT 'spinning' as we know it. Our understanding is poor but better than that! The waves in a 'bundle' are almost countless. Huygens knew that in the 1600's! Even the surface of the sea can contain dozens at a time, also 'polarised' differently. We've recently managed to produce 'twin spin' ourselves in the Lab (a recent NS).

      9. Equivalence. Not only are electrons not all identical but each may change within bounds quite regularly. The very variety of particles and 'random' behaviour will prove beyond VR.

      10. Tunnelling. Again that word impossible!, joined by another human misconception 'impenetrable'. We well know all matter is made of particles with void between. Some denser than others, all the particles made of oscillating 'spin' energy. It would be equally 'impossible' for any medium to have enough

      variety of particle spin to catch every single frequency/polarisation mode trying to pas through it. There will always be a resonant frequency.

      A bit like the millions of tadpoles being eaten by ducks. If a few didn't get away there would be no real frogs. And if they croak like frogs they are real.

      I propose the universe is real, and simpler than we thought because our conceptual pattern matching skills are as yet undeveloped. Most will not understand the fundamental implications in my essay. I hope you do, If only as I need to recruit allies!

      Let me know if there are any points I've missed, or ask any questions.

      Best wishes

      Peter

      Brian,

      I have re-read your essay and each time admire it more. (I have given you a high score, but haven't seen it show up.) Although my name is mentioned in another comment above, I don't wish to associate my name with any comments other than my own. I hope to argue a number of points with you in the following weeks, but the problem of local realism is key to everything, so I'd like to nail it down before moving on to other topics. Thanks again for a delightful essay that pushes non-local reality to its, perhaps, logical limits.

      Edwin Eugene Klingman

      Brian,

      I can`t save a copy of your article. I can save a "copy"

      but can't open it and Adobe giving back the message saying it is damaged.. How can I do it or what am I doing wrong?

      thanks,

      Marcel,

      Hi Karl,

      Let me try.

      In physicalism (2a) the world is as it seems - solid, real and self-existent - and consciousness "emerges" from physicality at the information complexity of the human brain, so machines will soon become conscious and replace us. Yet today's computers are socially dumb [1], as their architecture doesn't support the self-awareness to conceive an "I" [2]. And piling up video boards in a supercomputer is like piling up rocks, you get a bigger heap but it is still a rock (machine). So physicalism is dominant but has its problems.

      Enter solipsism (2b), where an observer "dreams" an unreal physical world. It argues that everything is mediated by my mind so is created by it, e.g. Harunyahya's "The secret beyond matter" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X04jN_xcLis If so, as you say, it will look real, as a dream does, at the time, but with no real external world out there, what makes it consistent? If no-one watches a forest, no tree can fall in it, but what if later one looks to find a tree fell - was a consistent past history also made up? Did we also fabricate the dinosaurs, or the billions of years of universe history? So that's a problem.

      In extreme solipsism everything is created by my mind, so "you" don't exist, i.e. the theory doesn't generalize well! A weaker version is that consciousness creates the world by triggering wave function collapse, as in Schrödinger's cat and your star example. Yet if we are "observation central", how did the universe manage before we came along to collapse its spreading quantum waves by observing them? So that's another problem.

      In contrast, in 2d, we are nothing special, as observer and observed are equal. The physical world arises from quantum interactions that are symmetric, i.e. if you "observe" a photon, it also "observes" you. If quantum collapse follows any quantum interaction, quantum uncertainty doesn't cumulate. It stops if the detector "sees" the photon, whether Schrödinger knows it or not. While in 2b, a conscious observer creates quantum collapse, in 2d the interaction of any "observers" does it. So that is one difference.

      In a virtual reality, observations create the physical world, as quantum theory says, as if one looks left a left view is created and if one looks right another is shown. That observing a virtual reality creates (a view of) it cracks the quantum measurement problem. But in 2d, unlike 2b, there is still a real world "out there" (it just isn't the world we see), i.e. it generalizes ok. That is another difference.

      Virtualism (2d) is the logical reverse of physicalism (2a). As physicalism postulates a physical substrate from whose interactions the conscious observer emerges, so virtualism postulates an observer substrate from whose interactions the physical world emerges. The "observer" in 2d is not us personally as human beings, but all existence "knowing" itself directly. So no tree falls in a forest unseen as the ground it hits "sees" it. There are no "gaps" here and no view history to recapitulate, as quantum reality has been simulating itself to itself from the beginning, i.e. the fundamental observer of the universe is not physical at all, let alone technical or biological, but the essence of consciousness in all things.

      To sum up:

      a. Physicalism was a good option before modern physics, but struggles to explain our consciousness.

      b. Solipsism can explain consciousness but struggles with realism, and doesn't generalize well

      c. Dualism is an illogical compromise to let us get on with business, as was the Copenhagen interpretation, i.e. a necessary "work-around".

      d. Virtualism is an unexplored logical possibility that science can evaluate, that has implications for the data we get from world we observe.

      Now, Conway shows logically that either the world, including us, is entirely mechanical, or if any part of it, like us, can be conscious (with free choice) then it must all be so [3]. In this view 2b and 2c attempt to "have ones cake and eat it too", leaving 2a and 2d as the only contenders.

      But can physicalism account for quantum theory? Everett's many worlds theory, that every quantum choice spawns an alternate universe, is the "way-out" case for 2a. It invents a multiverse machine to contain the quantum ghost's randomness, postulating a "clockwork multiverse", where no choice is ever really made. Yet why should an immense multi-verse, like a doting parent with a video-camera, copy everything our universe might do?

      The VR conjecture is the equally way-out case for 2d, that the quantum ghost is real and the physical world is its virtual shadow.

      Whether the world we see is an objective reality, that exists in and of itself, or a virtual reality, that is created by processing, is a hypothesis about it that science should be able to evaluate by facts plus logic.

      So now physics has two crazy, but consistent, explanations of the strange findings of modern physics to choose from. Lucky us.

      kind regards. Brian Whitworth

      References

      [1] B. Whitworth and T. Liu, "Politeness as a Social Computing Requirement," in Handbook of Conversation Design for Instructional Applications, R. Luppicini, Ed. Hershey PA: IGI, 2008, pp. 419-436.

      [2] B. Whitworth, "A Comparison of Human and Computer Information Processing," in Encyclopedia of Multimedia Technology and Networking, M. Pagani, Ed. Hershey PA: Information Science Reference, 2009, pp. 230-239, http://brianwhitworth.com/braincomputer.pdf

      [3] J. Conway and S. Koch, "The free will theorem," Found. Phys., vol. 36, no. 10, pp. arXiv:quant-ph/0604079v1, 2006.

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      • Post #15

      Dear Brian,

      Many thanks for your excellent essay. It makes sense to me and has given me a fresh way to look at the world and reality.

      I like the way your essay nicely explains some of the mysteries of Physics such as the Big Bang. I've always been unsatisfied with the view that what existed before the Big Bang was irrelevant. I know the conventional view is that even time was created in the Big Bang so such questions about "before" don't apply. BUT...as you say it can't just have arisen from nothing. You tie up lots of other loose ends nicely too. Well done!

      Marcel

      Just to advise the 'copy' function worked fine for me and it printed off ok.

      Brian

      I hope you didn't mind the 'assault'. Local Realism is also the key to my own thesis.

      I think I've discovered we have a problem holding more than a couple of 'moving' variables in our minds and evaluating interactions with other variables - at one time. (then scaling to analyse implications in the big picture).

      It's very 'virtual'. It seems our on board computers need a simple 'plug in' upgrade before we can fully understand inertial frames and curved space time. Once we see it, it's obvious.

      The variables are; Two co-moving reference frames (but with the co-ordinate systems "rigidly attached to a body' as Einstein specified. An observer either in one or other of the frames (with transition in either direction) or transitioning with the light (or transitioning body). Then, different n values for the different media (each way!). Then consider f / lambda / 'c' and E in each case. Maths can only do it once we get the conception correct. I think the closest we've got so far is the integro-differential equations of Ewald-Oseen extinction, but they are still 2 functions and some variable short of the full picture.

      I had to give up pure maths and train 7 years as an Architect to learn to think in a different enough way to hold it all in a mental matrix and manipulate it.

      Anyway, the result is local reality, quantum relativity, and a stream of answers.

      Do you fancy having a try at it? I promise it's worth it.

      Best wishes

      Peter

        Brian,

        I agree with many things you say, arguments you use, questions you ask. But by drawing a conjecture, you are not required to really look for any answer. Just speculate about it. I like your illustrations and your long bibliography. Just for the record, If you were to find the ultimate understanding of the universe, it would be so radical that, most likely, you would have no bibliography, no citation available to you. You would have not only to explain it, but also have to train the reader into thinking very differently. That is the hard part and you have done good on that, for your conjecture.

        Marcel,

          • [deleted]

          • Post #18

          Brian,

          Why shouldn't "... an immense multiverse ... copy everything that our universe might do"?

          After all, if "our" universe and "the" multiverse are disjoint, there doesn't seem to be anything that prevents replication and a subsequent new initial condition for "the" history of a subset of the multiverse independent of "our" history.

          OTOH, if there is communication among the universes of a multiverse, I can see that reality could not be other than virtual, because histories are malleable. I'm thinking of that movie "Inception" -- where the only connection between the dreaming subject and reality is a single code symbol known only to the subject. I get it.

          The rub is, if our universe is not independent of the multiverse (implying time reversal symmetry between universes), I can't see a role for gravity. While we know that classical gravity requires conservation of time symmetry, I think that quantum gravity by information models (e.g., Jacobson-Verlinde, 't Hooft) need imply information entropy and thus some information loss. This would obviate reversibility on the classical-quantum boundary where maximum decoherence implies the lowest energy state for every subset of the multiverse, in which case "our" universe cannot dynamically interact with "the" multiverse. The worlds are disjoint, bounded in space and unbounded in time.

          Tom

          Dear Edwin,

          You are right, the issue of localism is central.

          I don't think Bell's logic is flawed. Take the simplest case. A Caesium atom sends off two photons in opposite directions with unknown spin. Define "en route" as being from that event until either photon is involved in any physical event. So traveling through space, air or glass is "en route", but any physical interaction, like measuring its spin, is not en route. So if the apparatus has ANY physical effect, the photon is no longer en route. However it could, as you say, affect the photon's "hidden properties" which then become evident later when spin is measured. This is also what Einstein thought, so you are in good company here.

          To evaluate this, note that photon spin is a binary outcome, with only two values, "up" or "down", for clockwise or anti-clockwise direction, and always by the same amount, which is Planck's reduced constant. That the spin outcome is probabilistic does not mean it is "changing", except if by that you mean entirely and totally reversing spin direction as it moves. So a photon is not like some cork on a quantum sea that continuously changes position as it bobs up and down. It is like a trap that irreversibly snaps shut the moment anything physically touches it, and does so clockwise or anti-clockwise randomly, i.e. not determined by prior physical events.

          In entanglement, two such traps set off in opposite directions, and we find that if one snaps shut one way, the always goes the other way. So if the "apparatus" causes hidden "changes", why does it always change one up and the other down? Also the entangled photons can travel light years in empty space before the measurement, why does the "apparatus" of empty space push one up and the other down, as space is isotropic? It doesn't make sense.

          In addition, the quantum collapse of the two-slit experiment implies the same "non-locality" when only one photon hits a screen with no apparatus except space, as follows:

          "To Einstein, quantum collapse was absurd, as it implied faster than light travel. In his thought experiment a photon travels through a slit to hit a screen. Before it hits, the wave function says it could exist at points say A or B on the screen with some probability. After it hits, it is suddenly entirely at point A say, and not at point B at all. Now as the screen moves further away, the wave projection increases until eventually the A to B distance could be light years. Yet in quantum theory, the collapse is still immediate. The moment point A "knows" it is the particle, then B "knows" it is not, even if they are in different galaxies. The collapse decision is applied faster than the speed of light, which by special relativity is impossible for any known form of physical transmission." (from my Ch3, p16)

          In contrast, the VR conjecture requires this non-locality, as a program acting upon a screen is always non-local to that screen. As you look at the screen to read this posting the program creating takes the same time to change any pixel - it has no screen limits. This of course is assuming that the physical world is an image on a screen, which is just a conjecture.

          Your idea of a C field is remarkably similar to the idea of a grid. The main difference is that fields are presumed continuous while a grid is presumed discrete. You say that "superposition of states inherently does away with realism in favor of mysticism, claiming that quantum objects are 'ghostly' until measured".

          I argue that it only does away with physical realism, but not realism per se. When you say we still do not know what a quantum field is I add "physically". We know what it is mathematically. If one defines postulating anything "beyond the physical" as "mystical", then both quantum theory and your C field are so already. The VR conjecture is just saying the same thing, but more bluntly, and without a "cover" of mathematics.

          To me, logically, physics left the enclave of positivism long ago, when it embraced Faraday's idea of a field, which Feynman defines as follows:

          "A real field is a mathematical function we use for avoiding the idea of action at a distance. " (Feynman, Leighton, & Sands, 1977) Vol. II, p15-7

          We don't "see" fields, just their effects, and what is action at a distance but non-locality? I like fields, but lets be honest - they are not positivist "things" perceived directly.

          So while "The physical fact is that a magnetic field can only measure along one axis at once", the quantum fact is that it can go both ways at once. This is why quantum computing operates quite differently from our physical computing.

          This model is the testable theory that the physical world is virtual, i.e. has the properties of a processing output. What processing creates it can be derived by reverse engineering, if it is consistent. Other than that, how to describe it is open. So your C field could be a fine way to do that, and perhaps a better one, as it allows mathematics.

          regards

          Brian

          Dear Tom,

          There is no reason why it couldn't be, in theory. Indeed, as I say, it is THE case for physicalism, given the strange findings of quantum mechanics. Many respected physicists consider it the best option.

          But science works by comparing alternatives and deciding the most likely, not by absolutely deciding "truth". So that it is not impossible is not the question, but rather whether it is likely. Here is a case from (Whitworth, 2010), p31:

          "While initially ignored, physicists today prefer it (many worlds theory) three to one over the Copenhagen view (Tegmark & Wheeler, 2001) p6, despite its staggering overheads. Billions of galaxies of photons, electrons and quarks each making billions of choices a second for billions of years means the:

          ". . . universe of universes would be piling up at rates that transcend all concepts of infinitude." (Walker, 2000) p107.

          Many worlds theory offends Occam's razor by assuming more than it explains. Deutsch's attempt to rescue it by letting a finite number of universes "repartition" after each choice just recovers the original problem, as what decides which universes are dropped?"

          Is MWT just a theory designed to support a pre-existent bias that the world is an objective reality? Does it add any value, apart from that?

          In contrast, in the VR conjecture, what is "copied" are quantum entities, like photons, or more correctly, their processing is distributed non-locally. This is a lot simpler than copying the entire universe every time a quantum event occurs!

          regards,

          Brian

          Tegmark, M., & Wheeler, J. A. (2001). 100 Years of the Quantum. Scientific American, (Feb), p68-75.

          Walker, E. H. (2000). The Physics of Consciousness. New York: Perseus Publishing.

          Whitworth, B. (2010). The Light of Existence. Available at http://brianwhitworth.com/BW-VRT3.pdf

          Hi Peter,

          Thanks for the link. I couldnt get it to work but accept the point as true. You are quite right - in gravitational lensing, photons from the same cosmic event can arrive on earth at very different times because they take different paths. But that doesn't "collapse" the idea that the grid keeps photons in lock-step order for a given path. Obviously, different length paths will take different times, as there are more transfers. Even different paths of the same length will take different times if the grid is loaded differently on each, e.g. if one path goes by a massive galaxy that stream of photons will be slowed down. This is of course also well explained by general relativity, essentially the same way, though it talks of space "curving" while in this model it is a limited amount of processing being shared between movement and other things.

          kind regards

          Brian

          Hi Peter,

          No problem. I think it is ok to speculate, as physics does it all the time, as long as the speculation is worked out in detail, generates some new knowledge value, and is logically consistent. We should all be free to speculate, e.g. Einstein was being consistent in saying that quantum theory implies no empty space, as if an electron's quantum wave can spread over a galaxy, how is its space "empty"?

          In the VR model, empty space is entirely "full" of processing, whether it has a net output or not. A processing medium is a relative, non-physical "ether", whose output is physicality. It is as you say a discrete field - though it is just one, as you cannot logically have many grids. Its basic operation is electro-magnetism, and in an unfinished paper, gravity is the gradient of the same "field" that supports movement, i.e. SR and GR have the same origin.

          kind regards

          Brian

          Hi Marcel,

          No, I think anyone who claims to work in a scientific framework must do more than speculate, whether to produce a new logic of mathematics or new experimental data. This is the criticism of string theory, that it doesnt do this. So while this theory already accommodates a variety of past unexpected results, it must eventually predict an entirely new one.

          And yes, it is difficult to go against our conditioning that the world we call physical is a self-existent reality. But then it was once equally self-evident that the sun went around the earth, so human frameworks can change, though it may take time.

          kind regards

          Brian

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          • Post #24

          You can use Einsteins dice dice programmed 1 ODD THROW 1 EVEN THROW= 2 ODD THROWS.

          And 2 ODD THROWS 2 EVEN THROWS= 4 EVEN THROWS............

          You can program a virtual universe where the paths of particles are determined by EInsteins dice.......

          And compare this to the real world which is governed by random dice..................

          Maybe you can make predictions about determinism in the real world.

          Steve

          • [deleted]

          • Post #25

          Dear Brian,

          I emphasize again that I find more to agree with in your hypothesis than to disagree. I expect, too, that MWT does not add value to a physical theory beyond the assumption that the world is objective (I don't know that the attribution can be verified, but I have heard Hawking quoted as saying the MW interpretation is "trivially true." I agree, whether he said it or not.)

          Nevertheless, there is so much we don't know about the physics of consciousness that makes the assumption of an objective world nontrivial. I most certainly agree with you that consciousness is continuous ("... everything is 'knowing' everything else ...") yet there are physical theories and quantum theory interpretations in which this is also true. Gell-Mann spoke of it in _The Quark and the Jaguar_; Kefatos and Nadeau argued in The Conscious Universe: Part and Whole in Modern Physical Theory_ that the holistic universe is conscious in a real sense. And Bohm & Hiley _The Undivided Universe_ implied much the same.

          And maybe this is nitpicking over terms, but when you characterize VR as a simulation, do you mean emulation? A simulation to me implies the virtual reproduction of a model that actually exists physically -- while the emulation of a program cannot at all be distinguished from the original. If all is virtual rather than physical, then there should be no way in principle to determine if the emulation we experience in our " ... dark cave of physicalism, with our backs to the quantum sunlight, watching a shadow world projected ..." is original, or the emulation of an emulation, of an emulation, etc.

          Point is, I'd need more convincing that my assumption of an objective reality is superfluous. As it stands, I don't have to accept any reality _at all_ in order to do science -- the assumption of objective _language_ is sufficient -- which is why I prefer "metaphysical realism" (Popper) over your term "physicalism."

          I for one would be an enthusiastic reader of a book-length treatment of your hypothesis. I'll check out your site -- thanks.

          All best,

          Tom

          Hi Tom,

          I am trying to work through this step by step, so will cover the points you raise in more detail in a later chapter. This is just my first thoughts, which may change.

          The term emulation implies copying an original, as in emulating Windows on a Mac. As you say, simulating can mean the same, as in traffic model simulations. I use simulating in the sense of "The Sims" or Civilization, where a "world in itself" is created with its own space and time, that need not be a "realistic" copy of its containing world. Yet being contained, it must present on less dimensions than the parent, as we view 2D screen surfaces in our 3D space. This model just extends that, making our 3D space a "surface" of a 4D grid. If so, as you say, it may repeat, but science can only address whether this world is virtual or not, as that is all we know.

          That science can theorize beyond the physical world but must validate from within it may be what Popper means by meta-physical realism. I have to check that. If so, the term refers to a method of modern science, while the term physicalism is a conclusion it might reach. If they are two different contexts, there is no contradiction.

          Now extra dimensions in an objectively real world must somehow be within it, so string theory makes them "curled up", too tiny to see. Why a world should have such unseen and unusable dimensions is unclear. In contrast, a virtual world needs an extra dimension, making us the 3D version of Abbot's 2D Flatlanders, with an unseen dimension "sequestered" from us. Yet from a circle expanding and contracting in his world, Mr A. Square could conceive an unseeable "sphere", just as our complex number theory postulates an "imaginary" dimension beyond "real" space.

          In practice, this doesn't make the physical world unreal or superfluous, which is nihilism. Indeed, it accepts that the physical world is the only reality we have, but just adds the postulate that it is real only within itself, i.e. locally real. That it has no inherent reality is implied by that it is virtual, or generated by processing. This is not a religious or philosophical view, though others may see it so, but just a logical implication of the VR model.

          Also necessarily implied is that just as our simulations only exist if the programs creating them run, so the physical universe only exists if quantum programs creating it run. If the grid's processing were to at any time to stop, the physical world would, according to this model, instantly disappear as if it had never been. Clearly this is a different world view from the traditional one of a self-sufficient physical universe that created itself.

          regards,

          Brian Whitworth

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          • Post #27

          I've started reading your excellent essay and I feel later we will have an open fruitful discussion. Are our essays complementary? No answer is needed.

          I will be back soon.

          Good luck,

          narsep (ioannis hadjidakis)

          • [deleted]

          • Post #28

          Dear Brian,

          Starting from your conclusions:

          "Indeed, a world of objects that inherently exist is a concept flawed at its foundation. If a photon is

          a mini-object with hidden parts, they need still finer parts, and so on. If every object contains smaller

          objects, how can it ever end? That physical objects always arise from other physical objects is like the

          earth being a disc on the back of a giant turtle. Just as that turtle would need another turtle to stand

          upon, ad infinitum, so every object would need sub-objects to comprise it. A universe can no more be

          "objects all the way down" than it can be "turtles all the way down". The existential buck has to stop

          somewhere, and in this model, processing is it." :

          What if the argument goes in circle assuming that beyond the quantum (smallest) quantity is the infinity (biggest)?

          "By the logic of quantum theory, between our "real" observations is a quantum unreality of which

          the Copenhagen doctrine says we must not speak. Yet as entities are in-between interactions more than

          in them, the world exists mostly in uncollapsed quantum states. So by what logic are its brief moments

          of collapse "real"? Surely reality is what exists most of the time?" :

          An entity (SuE) is in a collapsed quantum state (pure real state) just for a moment the "time moment" that it is on time line (X=Y=Z); the time of perception (measurement). The same is true for the "time moment" when it is in its pure virtual state ΦX=ΦY=ΦZ . Hence, any entity is in its clear real or virtual state just for a "time moment" when it (the entity) is on its time line (extension of R or Φ, see Fig. 5 and 6 for 2D and Fig. 8 for 3D). At all other (infinity) time the entity is in a sum of stochastic states with continuously varying probabilities between the previous and the following collapsed quantum states. So reality is neither real neither virtual.

          "Or if quantum waves predict and cause physical reality, isn't making a cause "unreal" and its

          effect "real" backwards logic, like saying the sun circles the earth? If quantum states create physical

          states, by what logic are they unreal? Surely reality is that which causes, not that which is caused49?" :

          Reality is that which causes ONLY IF interaction is independent from what is caused. If this is not the case (interaction depends on the result through holographic virtual interconnection) then reality is that which causes PLUS that which is caused.

          "... against evidence that quantum states are non-physical by nature and quantum collapse is non-physical by origin." :

          Quantum states are "non-physical" by physical reality and quantum collapse is "non-physical" by virtual reality (both realities consist nature).

          "It is to this place, that others avoid, the VR conjecture takes us, not to shock or amuse, but to

          progress. We suppose ourselves in the rational sunlight of physical reality, standing before a dark cave

          of quantum paradox, but in this model, as in Plato's cave analogy, it is the other way around." :

          It is not like Plato's cave.

          It is like we see with one eye to our front and the other eye to our back. The front eye sees the real reality and the back one sees the virtual reality. We can not perceive both realities at once although they are both existing in the present universe. We have the appropriate glass(es) for the front eye and we are search for the glass(es) for the back one.

          Best regards,

          narsep