Reality Is Ultimately Digital, and Its Program Is Still Undebugged by Tommaso Bolognesi

Dear Tommaso:

I think my previous question - or the answer for it- got lost with the answer from an for Constantin.

I think your essay is great and your proposal of identifying space time "atoms" with a cellular automata yet to be debugged and understood is plausible. From experiments - or simulations- like the ones presented in "new kind of science" and in your essay we see "particles" and all sorts of things emerge. We could even find quantum mechanics emerging from there.

As you say, the automata are not yet "seen" and not debugged.

I think - as I propose in my essay- it might also be plausible to search the basic automata on the particles or sub particles instead of in space-time. I identify the basic automata with particles and see space and time derived from the interaction. Unfortunatly I haven't done concrete definitions and experimentation.

I feel my approach may have the problem of having more complex automata but might be easier to codify relativity and quantum mechanics in there.

Now, again, could you comment on the different approaches?. I do believe in an algorithmic universe, as many others -like Hector Zenil- do.

Regards

Dear Juan Enrique Ramos Beraud,

You supports Tommaso' essay because you have the same essay ''Universe is a computer'' with the similar statements and errors. If you want I can review your essay and show you a lot of flaws in your essay.

Sincerely,

Constantin

Dear Tommaso,

Your answers are unconvincing and wrong. Moreover, I suspect that you are trying to suppress my questions by the stream of senseless information. It is impossible to find the answers for these questions because this theory is fundamentally wrong.

Let us begin again with quantum mechanics. Your essay states that all the complexity we observe, from subatomic particles to the biosphere, is a manifestation of the emergent properties of a digital computation that takes place at the smallest spacetime scale. How this digital computation can explain the simple motion of free particle, the Heisenberg uncertainty? For this purpose this digital computation must know the absolute information position-momentum about every particle before events occurs, that is forbidden by quantum mechanics.

And I don't see any answer for this problem; your words about Quantum effects, Stephen Wolfram, Renate Loll explain nothing; It is a stream of senseless information. You cannot explain it by definition; it is a fundamental flaw in this theory.

The next flaw about black holes: I found at least one place where the digital computation can not exist, it is a proof that this theory is wrong.

And your answer is senseless: ''I completely agree that your PC (or even my Mac!) would start having computing problems a while after crossing a black hole horizon. But, again, we are not talking about hardware, we are abstractly talking about computation''. Do you think your spatial atoms will be able to process information inside of black hole, in singularity? Inside of the Black Hole the exchange of information is not possible, therefore the digital computation cannot work. Since I found at least one phenomenon/place that exist without need in the digital computation, it is a proof this theory is wrong.

Another argument also is not valid: ''By the way, a very good 1999 paper by Margenstern and Morita proves that, in the context of cellular automata, spatial (negative) curvature offers indeed a great computational advantage over flat space''. They refer about the usual curvature but not infinite curvature, singularity.

Thus, this theory is fundamentally wrong.

Regards,

Constantin

Constantin:

If you find my essay wrong, it's own thread is the place to comment it, and yes I would love the criticism.

Tommaso:

I would like some comments any way.

Yours.

Juan Enrique Ramos Beraud

Dear Tommaso

After recovering from my cataract operations I re-read your essay, and enjoyed the lovely photo of the pomegranate and the beautiful causal set plots. I also read the paper by Reid that you referred to. I still do not understand several aspects of causal sets. With my limited understanding of the technicalities involved I will try to express my reaction to the concept as applied to physics: You started by discussing automata and I could follow the logic of causality between nodes following a simple algorithm as in Wolfram's NKS. I have no access to the printed references of your other papers and could not understand the Termite simulations.

Generally I think complications occur when applying the automata concept to physics. GR and Quantum mechanics are accepted as they are now formulated, and the simplicity of a node structure has to be abandoned to accommodate their physically unrealistic and mutually incongruous methodologies. The resulting causal sets are bloated beyond necessity. In my earlier 2005 Beautiful Universe theory on which my present fqxi paper is based, both GR and QM have to be reverse-engineered and some complications discarded before my simple dielectric node-interactions are applied. Hope this makes some sort of sense!

Best wishes from Vladimir

At that level, a universal computation keeps running. We do not know yet

the program code, but, in accordance with a fundamental principle of minimality

('Occam razor'), we like to believe that it is small, at least initially.

Tommaso,

Do you think we will ever know the "program code"? You provide a fetching argument, but I tend to believe that reality is unknowable, though my argument isn't as definitive as yours.

Jim Hoover

Constantin,

your last post is basically a cut and paste of your original message: I could probably cut and paste my original answer again here (but I won't). Apparently, none of my arguments has succeeded in convincing you that there are many good reasons for investigating the computational universe conjecture (not 'theory'), in spite of the many problems that are still open. Never mind. I still see the glass half-full, while you see it half-empty...

Tommaso

PS - When you cross a black-hole horizon, nothing special happens to you; hitting the singularity at its center is another story. But in a discrete model of spacetime there is no room for infinities, and we talk, for example, of huge, but still finite curvature. A computation may well produce (or take place on) a graph with huge curvature!

Thanks on the comments. Very enlightening.

Yes, my last post is basically a cut and paste of my original message because I don't received any rational answer. Your ''answer'' explains nothing, it is a stream of senseless information; I'm afraid it is impossible to find an answer because it is a fundamental flaw in this theory.

''I could probably cut and paste my original answer again here.'' It makes no sense to cut and paste it, since it is a senseless information. Your ''original answer'' cannot explain my questions and therefore it is senseless.

''But in a discrete model of spacetime there is no room for infinities, and we talk, for example, of huge, but still finite curvature''.

Please read Wikipedia Black Hole - ''At the center of a black hole lies a gravitational singularity, a region where the spacetime curvature becomes infinite. Inside of Black Hole the exchange of information is not possible, consequently no computation is possible. Since I found at least one phenomenon that exist without need in computation conjecture, it is a proof this theory/essay is wrong.

Also this theory is forbidden by quantum mechanics and Heisenberg Uncertainty. The computational conjecture is not able to explain the motion of a simple particle and Heisenberg Uncertainty. To process the motion of particle, your computation conjecture must know the complete information about position and momentum before events occurs. Also I found other errors yet in this theory.

''there are many good reasons for investigating the computational universe conjecture''

We need the true, powerful Science, if we support the erroneous theories our civilization may die. There are revolutionary theories supported by nobody because all money are absorbed by false theories. It is a crime against humanity and science to support the false theories.

Constantin

Dear Tommaso

I read your essay with great interest, I think the possibility of model reality based on a digital model is a very interesting point but the potentiality it does not reside on the discreteness but on emergence. I tried to explain this on my essay from a different perspective that reveal the importance or true meaning of the digital approach, I would like to hear your opinions about it.

Regards,

J. Benavides

Hello,

I liked this essay. I think it is more appropriate for this contest although I think it considers a very restrictive view of the problem. Unlike the other three essays of high popularity, which I basically believe they should not have been accepted at all, this essay offers a novel perspective although too "ontological".

Peter, I think your comment is mean and uninformed. You should be reminded to be constructive. Remember that the essays are being rated by the community too, so if you think they don't even deserve to be accepted you are also disqualifying the rest of the participants.

Dear Tommaso,

Your essay offers an impressive look at the idea of emergence from CA and the connection with quantum gravity. Fascinating and well-organized!

Best wishes,

Paul

Dear Tommasso

You do not pay attention to my essay

http://www.fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/946

OK, perhaps I should not have said 'CAs' but rather 'automata or 'digital computation.' All in the spirit of Turing and von Neumann, at any rate!

Best wishes,

Paul