Knowing One from the Other by Jonathan J. Dickau

I liked the essay, but find these essays hard to rate. While this and others explore the area, they don't really seem to come to grips with the core aspects, in the same way that brought Hume to say 'Consign it then to the flames: For it can contain nothing but sophistry and illusion.'

This is a general comment, not specific to this essay. This was one of the better essays, I felt.

The connection between minds and worlds, under the GPE (see my essay) is that the Harmony Set may have several equivalent interpretations in the same way that a top hat functions can be replaced by a Fourier series, or redistributed values in higher dimensions. Which interpretation is the 'right' one? None. Which has priority, or is the foundational space? None. But these spaces are ontologically locked together. One might propose that one of these interpretations gives rise to mind.

Stephen Anastasi.

Dear Jonathan,

"certain regularities of Math have a life of their own, and influence or shape the laws of physics", I fully agree but the unknowable is that it works.

In my essay the Riemann sphere rigidified at three points is a very regular mathematical object, introduced by Grothendieck, that plays the role of measurement space for multiple qubits. To use your language the form is the 'dessin' on the rigidified sphere (or may be the stabilized geometry of observables) and the information is encoded at the extremities of its edges.

"The acquisition of object constancy, which takes place in early childhood...", may be you implicitely refer, and without knowing it, to Grothendieck's 'dessins d'enfants'.

Good luck,

Michel

Dear Jonathan,

Another excellent essay! Not only do I agree with your previous conclusion of analogue and digital, but that reality and information are also too intertwined to separate. My essay also concludes not to have either more fundamental. The child like thinking is a good reminder that we need to keep things simple and reach conclusions based on the simplest explanations.

Nice read too!

Very well done.

Best wishes,

Antony

Hi Jonathan,

I always appreciate that you don't dodge the biggest questions: "Does life descend to play in or with form, bestowing consciousness and creativity? Or does form rise and evolve to acquire these attributes, so it may play in the heavens?"

You allow that science takes the latter course. Things are changing, though -- in complex systems models of laterally integrated information, those upper and lower bounds of agent awareness and action are not so clear. What is becoming clear, through high tech data analysis of interacting systems, is that hubs of activity that control the system's output through negative feedback constantly shift position.* Most remarkably, the most drastic changes are on the shortest intervals of observation, while the system shows little change on the longer scale. Hence, your dance of creation.

"In considering the question 'It from Bit, or Bit from It?' one must always ask 'With respect to what?' The question is undecidable otherwise, as it is essential to understand that entities or systems can have a dual role, and can in fact be a blend of It/Bit flavors ..."

Nice. I am reminded of a recent U.S. president who assigned to himself the role of "decider," in vain. He should have taken a lesson from King Canute, standing in the surf and commanding the ocean waves to roll back. I expect the next chapter of human history will be one of cooperation, the only decision that really needs to be consciously made.

All best,

Tom

*See, e..g., Braha & Bar-Yam, "From Centrality to Temporary Fame: Dynamic Centrality in Complex Networks." Complexity vol 12, no 2, pp 59-63. [2006]

Dear Jonathan,

I have down loaded your essay and soon post my comments on it. Meanwhile, please, go through my essay and post your comments.

Regards and good luck in the contest.

Sreenath BN.

http://fqxi.org/community/forum/topic/1827

I had a delightful excursion into your Mandelbrot slides. And then I surfed over to Joselle Kehoe's blog (my first exposure), where an archived article on Gregory Chaitin's new book (*Proving Darwin*) caught my eye. After noting Chaitin's wonderfully phrased philosophy: "Each time mathematics faces a significantly new challenge, it transforms itself." Joselle follows up with her view:

"The idea that life itself is creativity, and that our knowledge of it is always incomplete, is a view of things that I believe mathematics easily inspires. My own experience with mathematics has always led me in this direction, both within the confines of my very personal experience as well as when I explore ideas in science, philosophy and art. It's a provocative and optimistic view. Mathematics seems to be coming from us, yet it keeps giving us images of the larger thing of which we are a part, to the point of showing us that we can never fully know that larger thing. We are seeing something about us and the world."

I so agree. Some say the Mandelbrot set is the most complicated object in mathematics. Actually, my vote for that honor is Chaitin's Omega number. Both objects, though, inform us that everything we are certain about is history -- a history that continuously creates infinite bifurcating trajectories. Only the hidden patterns of self similarity gives us even a hint of the global reality.

All best,

Tom

Jonathan,

You provide a generalist's perspective to a bunch of specialists. As I like to rib Tom, Generals run armies. Specialists are somewhere between corporal and private.

Regards,

John

Jonathan,

I have received word that although it was unfortunate that there was a delay in conducting the ratings, no extensions to the final deadline will be made. I will keep this in mind when I get a chance to review your essay later this week.

Best wishes,

Manuel

Hi again Jonathan,

I hope I find time to read your essay thoroughly. I only had time to browse through it today, but it was very interesting and refreshing. The first words to really catch my attention were "Does life descend to play in or with form, bestowing consciousness and creativity? Or does form rise and evolve to acquire

these attributes, so it may play in the heavens?" Therefore, it reminds me of William Shakespeare's lines -

All the world's a stage,

And all the men and women merely players.

They have their exits and their entrances;

And one man in his time plays many parts.

Today, life has you and I playing a part on FQXi's stage.

Best wishes,

Rodney

Hello Jonathan,

A nice contribution. To distill some truths from your essay, I quote excerpts and follow with remarks.

RE: "it is reasonable to observe that an ongoing interplay between 'It from Bit' and 'Bit from It' is an essential part of the natural order, and that this exchange of modalities is more fundamental than either view is on its own"

Quite correct.

RE: "the notion of 'Bit' has been generalized to include a broader spectrum of information types, and I think this is wise - because information does not always fit into conveniently-sized packages"; "...if we allow a sufficiently broad definition for quantifiable information..."; "There is always an interplay between information becoming stuff, and stuff becoming information"; "While it is quite clear that information of some nature does give rise to the universe of form, thus fulfilling Wheeler's vision of 'It from Bit',"

From all these, would you consider 'existence'/'non-existence' as a binary choice? Many have conceded to including this as information on this FQXi forum. Then given that what exists must have extension, no matter how minute and what does not exist would not occupy space, your ideas may coincide with mine here.

RE: "In relation to 'It from Bit' Physics, time and space are both the stage and the place for the audience to watch from"

Suppose space and time are not just the stage and place, but also the actors as well, contrary to what Gerard 't Hooft told you? That is exactly what I too suggest in my essay so leave this option open till you read my essay.

A very nice essay to be well rated.

Regards,

Akinbo

My pleasure Jonathan,

As I said - thoroughly enjoyed it. Still working my way through the essays myself. Enjoyable, but hopefully there won't be many more new additions now or time won't permit.

All the very best for the contest - well deserved position you are in!

Antony