J.C.

J.M asked the right question; "Does light really travel as a photon".

Does Eckard really think it does? If it did then we wouldn't just have "near misses", at EPR ranges it's be like hitting a speck of dust with a scatter gun at half a mile!

The signal expands as a wavefront, as the nonlinear Schrodinger (NLS) equation and as we know from coherent forward scattering (CFS) and Huygens Construction, the staples of optics and photonics etc. well proven experimentally.

That explains why there are so many reliable hits, even at long range. We COULD say there are mainly 'near misses' because most of the wavefront misses the electrons of course! But the wavefront can't get past without part being absorbed.

That all also goes back to JD Jackson, the bible of electrodynamics, and 'extinction distances' dependent on medium density. It's s tricky to envisage a wavefront having spin, but it actually has a whole recursive SET of spins! at all scales. It seems that each electron in the detector field will absorb some of the (harmonic scale) spin and conserve the quanta (spin) while rotating it's axis.

The diffuse wavefron energy explains why the EM field electron is the massively dominant partner in propagation of EM energy, which completes the full DFM unification dynamic as each one re-emits at c in it's OWN rest frame, so implementing local CSL. (SR) One very simple mechanism to unify all physics!

(Ooops, forgot GR; The condensate has a local paucity of energy while the particle exists, so a 'density gradient', to obey conservation law).

Does any of that sound too speculative or silly? Nice to have somebody else to peek into the back of the vault with. Do you reckon we could get that panel off and share the contents all around a bit? That WOULD be progress!

Best wishes

Peter

Pete & John M.

"it's like hitting a speck of dust with a scatter gun"

Thanks, your model is taking more shape in my understanding now. I would agree that 'part' of the expanding wavefront interacts with the field in a near miss and that the scenario is similar to nuclear cross section. Sometimes it hits spot on!

But what is the 'photon'? Well, I would say it definitely is not a spherical wave. And the terminology must be qualified lest we confuse one second worth of emission as the single 'photon'. It really is not difficult to envisage physical rotation in the expanding wavefront if we look at a helical model of OAM being the constancy of magnetic influence that would be detectable by instruments. Electrostatic influence is a 'c' proportion greater in the same point charge as determined by Maxwell. So right or left hand twist is as you say, observer dependent, but in relation to one another polarity would be dependent on the direction of rotation but arbitrarily assigned as Franklin had done. Following this line of reason would mean that the inertial volume of a quanta of emission is a linear phenomenon and the particle form observed in the photo electric effect is the greatest electrostatic influence while the wavefront in the helical linear projection is an expansion from the electrostatic to the minimum detectable magnetic influence that would describe the real physical cross section of the helix. It is simply that an emission source might radiate photonic helical emissions omnidirectionally which would then register as a single spherical wave.

The question then becomes; how does the linear quanta projection evolve in a physical volume configuration from an excited electron mass? Wouldn't wavelength be dependent on the real time it takes for a CONTINUOUS flow of energy to emerge from the electron?

And of course, if E=mc^2, what part of that energy exists at a density which could be said to be the 'hard' core of a free rest mass?

I subscribe to a notion that the behavior of energy in a discrete mass quantity will transmit primary force effects such that a greater density will exhibit all those effects of lesser densities but not vice-versa.

Do we agree that Quantum probabilities are dependent on there being discrete fields that may assume either an EM physical configuration self limiting to the Planck Quanta per wavelength, or a relative rest mass configuration limited to an upper bound that may not exceed that of the largest observed isotopic mass?

And... onward through the fog! jrc

Peter J,

Engineers like me know that any standing wave can be interpreted as two superimposed waves that propagate in opposite direction, and vice versa. Obviously, there are no strictly speaking standing waves in reality but an average over many cycles rather than infinitely much of cycles.

Also, a linear polarized transverse wave can be interpreted as superposition of a clockwise and an anti-clockwise spinning wave, and vice versa, cf. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_polarization

Can polarization be attributed to particles? If so, why wasn't spinning explained accordingly? Is this question at the hearth of your objection?

Eckard

Peter, John C, Eckard,

Isn't light as a wave essentially holographic and the quantization more a function of the reception, so that the issues of entanglement/non-locality are essentially the same properties which allow two people in different directions to observe the same event? A function of the information being carried.

Then gravity as a measure of this collapsing wave, such that why gravity waves can't be detected is because they are the information being carried by light and its reception as a contraction of the energy?

Regards,

John M

John,

"Wouldn't wavelength be dependent on the real time it takes for a CONTINUOUS flow of energy to emerge from the electron?"

Yes, or rather a 'cycle', which the propagates at c wrt each electrons centre of mass rest frame.

The physical analogy of the NLS equation (which has a 'spread function') is perhaps spherical but the emission energy is highly FOCUSSED on the same axis as the charge (plasma doesn't refract except 'kinetically' if moving sideways during the process, which explains 'kinetic reverse refraction' and 'stellar aberration'.

Many of these are propagating from many electrons. The 'energy is only requantised at constructive interference 'peaks' or where impacting matter (another electron, which may be at a 'refractive plane').

The above is really as old as the hills, certainly the Huygens/Fresnel principle (HFP) and Huygens Construction, but QED also has a valid description of the distribution via sum-over-paths. In answer to your other questions and descriptions, I don't know.

I recognised a few snippets but I'm not sure if what they describe is close enough to the perception I uses. Certainly the Planck limit plays it's roles in defining min wavelength gamma and so the LT. I really don't like speculating so only wish to go so far as what's both needed and consistent with a coherent bigger picture.

We need to shine some more light on it. Got a torch?

lol

Peter

JBM,

"..the quantization more a function of the reception". I agree that, but; "entanglement/non-locality" need to do far more. By current convention on current assumptions; If Alice changes her detector switch Bob's finding a light year away must instantly CHANGE! What discrete field dynamics (DFM) now shows is which precise parts of which 'hidden' assumptions are wrong and how the effect found are produced if changed.

In a nutshell(ish!) the new DFM assumptions include;

1. 'Particle' spin propagates on the spin axis (causal wavefront 'normal') at c.

2. Electron filter/modulator field direction modulates the 'particle' spin.

3. The spin direction found is then RELATIVE to the detector spin direction.

4. Orbital angular momentum (OAM) changes with 'latitude' by the cosine of the angle from the equatorial plane to that latitude.

5. 'Measurement' is exchange of OAM on physical interaction at any (tangent) point on that 'line of latitude'.

6. As BOTH parties(cles) are spinning, the relative angles of BOTH are compared and the cosine squared to produce the quantum correlation, which is then also Malus's Law.

That works (Bell was frustratingly close on p146) but only deals with one quantum 'gauge', so at higher orders (the smaller spin helix of the 'twine' making up the 'string') uncertainty ('probabilism') remains so it does not prove nature is ultimately deterministic. However the very same o process modulates emission speed to local c, so the STR can use 'absolute' time and so be unified with QM. (inertial systems are give spatial constraints. (Much of the rest I've been able to reach so far is in the essays).

A lot to follow I know. Do please, all, let me know if you can make coherent sense of it, or which bits not.

Many Thanks. Best wishes

Peter

Eckard,

"Can polarization be attributed to particles? If so, why wasn't spinning explained accordingly? Is this question at the hearth of your objection?"

Yes. At the heart to.. 'Spin' wasn't explainable as OAM due too 'spin 1/2' and '2' etc. which took half or two revolutions to return to the start point. That's why my Fig 1 is so critical; it shows that spin can be simply different 'scales' of orbital angular momentum (OAM). Follow the reference I give and you'll see the quite conclusive support from optics etc. A ships rope is a good model; there is twist within twist within twist, then you can wrap it round a spar, then spin the ship on a planet, etc.

A point or dipole on a 'linear polarized transverse wave' may be considered as describing the rope, with opposite 'spin' when observed from each end (all OAM is 'non-mirror symmetric'). Once we can describe QM's 'Q'AM as OAM we can get rid of all the spooky nonsense and derive 'entanglement' (simply the conserved opposing spin axis) and 'non-locality' (Alice doe NOT need to affect Bob's finding to explain the results found because detector field electron direction MODULATES polarity!!

Now just go through the short list I just posted to John to put the whole jigsaw puzzle together and solve the EPR paradox. Both QM and SR have to be re-interpreted slightly to converge. Each inertial system is real, based on matter, and has a physical 'DISTANCE' limit, not the 'infinity' implied now.

Does that open up a better insight? (There's lots more in there, all connected).

best wishes

Peter

Peter,

"Do please, all, let me know if you can make coherent sense of it, or which bits not. "

{link:http://nautil.us/issue/15/turbulence/the-scientific-problem-that-must-be-experienced]Hah.[/link] I have some sense of my own limits. Basically it does seem like you are taking turbulence down to the quantum level and while I certainly applaud the order you have managed to derive, I have the sense to stand on the seashore and simply marvel.

As I keep trying to argue, sometimes the details really are beyond any but the most specialized needs and then we should step back and try to see if there are not larger patterns, that while fuzzy in the details, can still be informative.

One of the arguments I keep making about complexity theory, is that it is not so much the line between order and chaos, but between order/information and energy. These systems are otherwise known as thermodynamics/convection. Keeping in mind that order is inherently static, while energy is inherently dynamic, thus creating a tension which manifests at all levels, as thermodynamics.

As I keep trying to argue, galaxies can be explained by this process, as energy expands and mass contracts. Now when you get down to the level of the spin of individual particles and systems, the main problem is trying to isolate any part of it from the contextual dynamic. Which can only really be done for specific purposes, with specific caveats. The problem is when we turn around and try to extrapolate those models back onto describing the whole system, rather than just the part we distilled it from. Then we end up with ideas like blocktime and black holes, which are approximately linear derivatives of cyclical realities and then wonder what happens if we 'sail off the end of the world,' as our model tells us we will, because the 'physics breaks down.' Yet the order/information derived, being static, must be more real than any fuzzy, chaotic energy. (Even a moving car doesn't have an exact location, or it wouldn't be moving. Dynamic versus static.)

As it is, my head spins enough. I like the little blocks of order that come along on occasion.

Regards,

John M

JBM, Eckard, Pete,

We are all at least asking the same questions, however differently stated. I like to think that is progress.

The picture of OAM is predicated on a sphere, or spheroid by extrapolation, and so provides a rationale for the cyclical nature of the typical sinusoidal signature of EM. I'm a bit fuzzy how that works in Pete's DFM. Do we look at the linear projection of EM as successive bursts of quanta each with it's inherent OAM? I am currently in favor of the quanta per wavelength being determined by some mechanism that is consistent with the near field evolution as a difeomorphism from a continuous flow of energy from an excited (energized) electron seeking to maintain an optimal volume:energy configuration. That is quite distinct from the behavior of an electron as constituent of an atomic mass. The wave function of probability as to where and when an electron is measured in an atomic volume is not necessarily 'unreal' if an electron rest mass is physically an optimal balance of energy quantity prescribing a finite volume. The predominance of electrons as discrete particulate matter, the uniformity of its rest mass and charge, and it's stability which defies calculable half-life; all suggest it is an optimum volume:energy entity. As such, it may well be that its propensity to evolve from a nondifferentiated energy 'soup' in the atomic volume gives rise to the purely mathematical probability of the wave function. Bell's 'beable'. jrc

Sometimes God loads the dice. Those are called miracles.

Jason,

So the creationist answer to 'Why Quantum?' is that it's a miracle?! jrc

Random eigenstates are the ultimate back door into God's creation. Occasionally those same random eigenstate back doors are used by ... other things.

John C,

Physics give rise to the math and the math defines the physics. Energy creates information/information defines energy. Bottom up and top down.

Regards,

John M

There is a sadness that comes into each of our lives with the passing of one for whom we care, and that shows us that we cannot ever know all of the world. There are things that will be forever beyond our knowledge, and for the losses that we share, there will forever be questions.

Why now and not some other time? Why here and not some other place? Why me and not other person?

My sympathies and hope for a desirable future for those that survive, because survival is the key. A strength that we all share is survival from those whose lives have past and yet provided us their strength and their wisdom.

Thanks Steve.

As I see it, the price we pay for being able to feel in the first place, is that a lot of it is pain.

Regards,

John M

Peter, congrats on your yachting success and the "unbelievable number of wins". Must be great fun. Your 2-page summary is inaccessible online at http://https//www.academia.edu/6525547/Classical_reproduction_of_quantum_correlations_popular_summary_A_. Perhaps, the link has been changed. Please check. I want to repay the favour of reading my paper which has now been accepted for publication after peer-review.

Again, God bless you for the "Have We Been Interpreting Quantum Mechanics Wrong This Whole Time?" page linked. I suffer confirmation bias so I cherry-pick and make some comments on what I took away from reading the page and the very useful links therein, including David Bohm's 1952 paper, A suggested interpretation of quantum theory in terms of 'hidden variables' and the experiment of Yves Couder and Emmanuel Fort, Single-Particle Diffraction and Interference at a Macroscopic Scale, published in Phys. Rev. Lett., with the abstract: A droplet bouncing on a vertically vibrated bath can become coupled to the surface wave it generates. It thus becomes a "walker" moving at constant velocity on the interface. Here the motion of these walkers is investigated when they pass through one or two slits limiting the transverse extent of their wave. In both cases a given single walker seems randomly scattered. However, diffraction or interference patterns are recovered in the histogram of the deviations of many successive walkers. The similarities and differences of these results with those obtained with single particles at the quantum scale are discussed.

My cherries picked:

"This new body of research reveals that oil droplets, when guided by pilot waves, also exhibit these quantum-like features".

"To some researchers, the experiments suggest that quantum objects are as definite as droplets, and that they too are guided by pilot waves -- in this case, fluid-like undulations in space and time."

"But de Broglie urged his colleagues to use two equations: one describing a real, physical wave, and another tying the trajectory of an actual, concrete particle to the variables in that wave equation, as if the particle interacts with and is propelled by the wave rather than being defined by it."

"Later, the Northern Irish physicist John Stewart Bell went on to prove a seminal theorem that many physicists today misinterpret as rendering hidden variables impossible. But Bell supported pilot-wave theory. He was the one who pointed out the flaws in von Neumann's original proof. And in 1986 he wrote that pilot-wave theory "seems to me so natural and simple, to resolve the wave-particle dilemma in such a clear and ordinary way, that it is a great mystery to me that it was so generally ignored."

"Many of the fluid dynamicists involved in or familiar with the new research have become convinced that there is a classical, fluid explanation of quantum mechanics. "I think it's all too much of a coincidence,""

"The possibility exists that we can look for a unified theory of the Standard Model and gravity in terms of an underlying, superfluid substrate of reality,".

Biased inferences that can be drawn from the cherries.

1. From the bouncing drop experiments and the 'pilot wave' deductions therefrom, the medium, here the oil bath is an active participant in the phenomena of motion observed. The droplet disturbs the fluid bath and the fluid bath disturbs and guides the motion of the droplet. An action-reaction principle obtains, that is, that which can react can also be acted upon, and that which can be acted upon can also react.

2. If space can undergo undulations, that is, if space can move, then it is a substance, and can be the superfluid substrate of reality. As Newton says in different places in his De Gravitatione,"...it is clear that they (philosophers) would cheerfully allow extension (space) to be substance, just as body is, if only extension could move and act as body can";"...space is capable of having some substantial reality. Indeed, if its parts could move..., and this mobility was an ingredient in the idea of vacuum, then there would be no question about it - parts of space would be corporeal substance";"And my account throws a satisfactory light on the difference between body and extension (i.e. between a body and a region of space). The raw materials of each are the same in their properties and nature, and differ only in how God created them...".

3. How can space move? If space can move, can there be more than one place in a place? If the latter is not possible, then the only motion or undulation space can undergo is between, "nowhere" and "somewhere". The universe itself moves this way, from 'nowhere' to 'somewhere' and from 'somewhere' to 'nowhere'. Big bang from nothing (nowhere), expansion (somewhere) and collapse to nothing in Big crunch. With this type of motion, Zeno's Arrow need not move and leave its place its place. Space is a participant in motion and the distance or 'extension', as Newton likes to call it between Zeno's arrow and its destination moves from "somewhere" to "nowhere" and that between the arrow and its origin moves from "nowhere" to "somewhere", the arrow therefore hits its target without actually leaving its own somewhere or place. Such infinitesimal undulations in extension, dx occur in time, dt and so time varies as well, making dx/dt workable in dynamics. Space is therefore an active and full participant in all motion, both classical and at quantum scale. When Peter therefore moves in his yacht from one end of a 10 metre room to another, you are destroying space in the direction of your motion, while creating it in the opposite direction. The 10m is however conserved, so that as you destroy 7m in the direction of your motion and move 3m closer to your destination, you have created 7m behind you from nothing since it never existed. You are therefore a creator, with small c.

Regards,

Akinbo

*Send me that 2-page summary, although I have challenges with electricity and internet connectivity.

Jason Mark Wolfe replied on Jul. 4, 2014 @ 03:53 GMT

"I'll tell you what. When I leave this world, I will personally haunt the physics community as a poltergeist."

Well, I certainly wouldn't want you to bother with haunting in your afterlife as you will likely be much more occupied by other important things.

Wondering if there is life after death really comes down to a question of how well science understands the quantum binding between a mind and consciousness into reality.To understand any kind of consciousness after death, that consciousness would still need to be a part of this universe and not a part of some other universe or dimension, i.e., supernatural agents or ghosts are by definition not part of the universe and are therefore just beliefs that people must simply have.

Science understands some of this quantum binding of the mind with other objects including other minds very well but most of that binding remains a mystery. Moreover, it is likely that science will never understand some portion of the binding of a mind and the world and science will need to simply accept this portion as axiomatic.

Science will eventually learn how to read long-term memory from brain matter and science will learn how to measure the connections of the brain that define feeling as well. Finally, science will learn how to sustain the aware matter algorithm of neural recursion that we call thought.

So you may be right after all in that if your memories and feelings get downloaded into an aware matter computer upon your death, your afterlife could very well end up haunting the physics community.

    Peter J wrote: "Spin' wasn't explainable as [orbital angular momentum] due [to] 'spin 1/2' and '2' etc. which took half or two revolutions to return to the start point. ... my Fig 1 ... shows that spin can be simply different 'scales' of orbital angular momentum".

    As well known, squaring a sinusoidal or exponential function doubles the value of its argument: 2[cos(wt)]^2=1+cos(2wt) and [exp(iwt)]^2=exp(2iwt), respectively. How carefully did those like Schroedinger, Heisenberg, Dirac introduce QM? The latter wrote what perhaps all other ones also assumed: Frequency (and therefore power too) is always positive. Up to now, the Hamiltonian is considered positive. They ignored that function of time corresponds via Fourier transformation with a complex function of both a positive and a negative frequency. Alternatively, a seemingly physically correct positive and real-valued function of frequency would correspond to positive and negative functions of time in complex domain. Schroedinger admitted in his 4th communications his heuristic way of thinking. To me it seems obvious that they altogether tacitly changed their perspective from a wave function of time to a function of frequency/power without being aware of all consequences. Because power equals to a squared function of time, the scales have periods that differ by the factor of two. Who can either confirm or refute my reasoning? Why were the experiments interpreted in terms of half integer periods? Let me add that Heisenberg (?) originally operated not with the complex wave function but in the sense of an inverse transformation eventually with its real part but they suddenly dropped that step back into real domain without explaining this trifle.

    Eckard

      Steve Agnew: "Wondering if there is life after death really comes down to a question of how well science understands the quantum binding between a mind and consciousness into reality.To understand any kind of consciousness after death, that consciousness would still need to be a part of this universe and not a part of some other universe or dimension, i.e., supernatural agents or ghosts are by definition not part of the universe and are therefore just beliefs that people must simply have. "

      To say that supernatural agents and ghosts are not part of the universe is unknown at this time. But then to jump to the conclusion that "ghosts are only a belief" is itself a belief. You skeptic atheists keep forgetting that big bangs coming from nothing is sleight of hand. We all know this. It is much more rational to assume that the big bang was an even that occurred in some larger existence that is undetectable at this time. You could say that the big bang was an event that occurred in the ethers, or you could just as easily say that Infinite Consciousness, aka God, created this universe in order to have something to explore, and that God created souls as extensions of His Consciousness. Ghosts are just souls that do not return to heaven (go into the light).

      You can be ask skeptical as you wish. You can even ignore a good solid haunting by a hard working ghost if you wish. Most of the scientific community is already doing this.