The Fundamental Nature of Time by Edwin Eugene Klingman

I give up:

R_{munu}-frac{1}{2}g_{munu}R=frac{8pi(-k)}{c^4}

each person that write in latex understand this equation

Sorry

Domenico

Edwin,

Nice essay. Fun format and moot points to your usual excellent standard (though AE didn't get much of a word in!) Of course I agree local 'ether' frames, but Einstein didn't get a chance (or forgot) to mention his key final concepts (1952 'Addendum'). Which I agree, and relate to your p5 'boxes'. Please advise what's wrong with this;

1. First do away with the 1st (bottom left) box. If at rest in the ambient frame it's 'part of it'.

2. As the waves reach the top box they're absorbed by the boundary fermions, re-quantized and re-emitted at local c in the new rest frame (now in Maxwell, Lorentz and radio engineers Transition Zone {TZ} and 'far' field). They are thus Doppler shifted to red. If they're sequential time signals? - they thus appear to be slowed (dilated) ..or 'contracted' (blue shifted, 'sped up', if moving the other way).

3. If the lower box were also in some other state of motion that TZ process would also happen as it entered the ambient medium. (There would then be 3 local speeds c visible by displacement by the reader!!! though all signals do c locally.)

4. In the case of the train, light within the train does c in the local train rest frame and on exit Doppler shifts to do c in the track frame. (We can substitute Earth and its ionosphere or any lens, for the box & train). Watch a pulse through the passing windows and it looks like c+v.

5. The TZ is from (we know) a micron deep (at prisms & lenses) to a few parsecs for galaxy clusters, the more diffuse the medium the more gentle the curvature (& birefringence) and it's also lambda dependent (antenna engineers know all this). There's a short low quality video of a moving box if you'd like it.

That's based on the discrete field model, (DFM) consistent with what Einstein forgot he'd said in '52 (too much to drink I expect!) describing inertial systems as "spaces with spaces, not thought of as bounded, in relative motion". I (now) don't find that "non-intuitive" at all!. It seems consistent with all evidence I can find & seems to resolves the issues. That's subtly but importantly different to Hertz's view. Can you identify where and why it may appear flawed. or raise any questions?

The classical QM solution (as Declan employs) emerges from the same interaction model (though not just 2 states & 3 axes, and also including Cos2,- see Declans string).

Great essay whatever. Another top score due I think!

Very best

Peter

Dear Peter,

Thanks for your comments. I will address them one by one.

1. The "boxes" are reference frames, so it makes no sense to do away with the rest frame. They're translucent, and, while redundant, I think the visual image of the frame is appropriate. An invisible depiction of space is potentially misleading. In any case, it changes nothing physical.

2. You are adding layers of physical entities that do not exist, are unnecessary, and simply complicate the issue. (I've yet to discuss this theory with a true relativist who did not wish to redefine the problem immediately into terms he was comfortable with, almost always in terms of two inertial frames.) Your first paper, which impressed me greatly, dealt with plasmas in space, but there are no plasmas in this problem.

3. The 'ambient medium' is the local gravitational field, and the behavior is completely defined by the Maxwell-Hertz equations. All signals do not do c locally, since one of the frames is defined to be moving with respect to the local gravity.

4. Forget (box-car-like) "in the train" and use open flat-cars. The light moves with speed c in the local gravitational field (associated with the railway station and/or tracks). If by "local train rest frame" you mean the moving flatcar, then it does not do c in the flat-car's rest frame. That's the point!

5. There is no transition zone in the perfect vacuum (filled with gravitational field, but no plasma). So this point is moot.

In short, your ideas of plasma-filled space are very likely valid for interplanetary and even interstellar space but have zero application or relevance to electromagnetic propagation in the local gravitational field. After 100 years of special relativity based on "two inertial frames" (leading to Lorentz) it takes some mental work to re-conceptualize as "one inertial frame" (with energy-based Lorentz). My essay does not describe the 'discrete field model' and does not fit into your above comments, but I very much appreciate your taking the effort to transpose it to such a framework.

Thanks again for your gracious comments.

My very best regards

Edwin Eugene Klingman

Dear Edwin,

First of aal my reaction on the comments you have on my essay 5thank you for paying attention to it..)

"In the so called space-time there is no absolute simultaneity". The so called means "emerging", as it emerges out of the Planck Area where time and space are all simultaneous, only at the border line that I described as vague and full of exitations, all simultaneity is lost once the "reality" emerged. The so emerging "reference frames" are each one differnt from the other which is in accordance with Einsteins relativity theory.

"Backwards causation" Wheelers delayed choice thought experiment is no longer a thought experiment but has been executed and is a phenomenon that we have to count with. My model can explain it as you have read. I understand that is (like everything in quantum mechanics) a bit strange to get trusted with..

The confusion that arises when I introduce "Total Consciousness" is understandable. The basic reason for consciousness is the experience and implementation of our emerging reality. In order to realise that we need a "first cause" that I call "INITIATIVE". This first cause cannot originate out of only emergent phenomena. There is of course "causality from emergent phenomena" but then the mergence has already "occurred".

I also have read your essay and will give a reaction after this one

Good luck and regards

Can I order two beers please ?

Just to celebrate your very good written essay Edwin.

The discussion you describe is indeed fundamental for what I am calling "our emerging reality" and the reference frames that are involved in this process.

you say : ""An inertial frame is one in which spatial relations, as determined by rigid scales at rest in the frame, are Euclidian and in which there exists a universal time...[such that Newton's laws of inertia hold.]" I understand that these frames are the reference frames of "agents". Events happening "inside" these frames are seeming simultaneous for other frames outside the observed one.

You are discussing simultaneity like I also am trying to find a solution for this in my model (that you already have read).

An interesting article you can find here:EINSTEIN, RELATIVITY and ABSOLUTE SIMULTANEITY from William Lane Craig.

"But Earth exists in and travels through one time dimension, not one per location!" Here you are touching the foundational question of time and space, in a block universe there is o travelling there "movement" is from one moment to another even no "flow'' needed, becaus e these moments need not to be consecutive. (The perception of consecutive only exists in our memory)

"The fundamental nature of time is universal simultaneity" This perception is in concordance with my perception of "Total Simultaneity" that is the origin of the emergence of TIME. But the time that originates from this Planck Area is coupled to the mergence of space and a specific reality.

I am gonne read your essay again (first of all to understand better the formula's you used) because it is to me a vast information source.

I thank you for making me THINK and I hope to meet again in your bar, maybe there are arriving more scientific spirits for further discussions. This discussion I liked very much and rated it like that...

best regards

Wilhelmus de Wilde

Edwin,

Yes, thanks. I understand you don't agree Einstein's final conceptions, or free fermions around all bodies increasing with v, as Unruh, probes etc. (Though I assure and can show you that IS what's universally found!) But we must all focus on and follow our own paths with all rigor, and close agreement isn't a valid scoring criteria! (you do excellently on those!).

Your approach is very interesting and I agree the local 'gravity' view may help acceptability in many eyes. For myself I most strongly 'usefulness' i.e. in logically resolving anomalous effects. I've found that in extremis in the 're-emission at local 'c' schema, including the full ontology behind Declans code, and have looked for it hard in the tavern but you'll have to help me.

Last questions to help me rationalise your view and falsify mine;

1. Will fermions absorb and re-emit ('requantize') EM energy in your schema?

2. If so, may the re-emission be at c in each centre of mass rest frame, or what other speed would each electron select, and why?

Great chat. Another beer?

Peter

Hello Ed,

This one looks interesting and fun! I am only now starting to scan for interesting reading material in this year's crop, after pushing to make a proper completion for my own entry. I tried to squeeze as much as possible of the material in my talk at FFP15 in Orihuela, while keeping on topic for the most part, and while stepping down the feed voltage to match the technical level required here. I left a lot out, most of which is covered elsewhere, but I managed to put some very technical concepts in layman's terms - so we'll see.

Or rather, you will see my essay appear in a few days. And if he follows through on what we discussed via e-mail; you will also see an entry from Brian Josephson in this year's contest. His lecture at FFP15 was far off the beaten track, but the idea to used concepts from bio-semiotics to explore Physics might put some items in our toolbox that otherwise would never get added. So we'll have to see how the FQXi community treats his work. I look forward to some engaging discussions.

All the Best,

Jonathan

Edwin,

Thank you for your kind words regarding my essay.

In this thicket of dense conversation, it is helpful that you highlight pearls of wisdom arising from the dialogue and thus differentiate the realities of Hertz and Einstein, like clocks measure energy not time and fundamental reality based on energy-time conjugation not on space-time symmetry. The differences in reality that Einstein provided in explaining Hertz's photoelectric effect was well done thru the tavern-centered dialogue. Thanks for a good read, Edwin.

Jim Hoover

Dear Edwin,

I have read with great interest your deep essay on the problem of fundamentality. You give very important ideas that encourage the need to revise the ontological foundations of natural science. The FQXi contests provide an excellent opportunity to push new ideas and that's fine. Great job. I think that there will be a "big fight". And that's fine.

Successes in the Сontest!

My best regards,

Vladimir

Good work, especially the elaborations on the fundamental relationship between (unperfect) clocks, energy and time.

I like this essay very much!

I admire the way the bartender-mediated conversational style makes it seem almost effortless going between using words and equations to communicate, without breaking stride to explain yourself. I am only now becoming able to weave the Math in without it interrupting the flow of my message, so your dexterity in that area is well appreciated. I chose instead to go with almost purely verbal content in the body, and saved the equations for the technical explanation in the endnotes.

I will be reading this one again, before rating it or commenting much further. But I wanted to mention that some of what you said connects back to a lecture by Mikhail Altaisky I attended, talking about the complications of using a GPS system to guide travel in space. Choosing the nearest satellites fails to provide meaningful information sometimes, because the Jacobian vanishes. This can be traced to the need for a non-collapsing tetrahedron of measurement platforms, in order to provide meaningful or reliable positioning data.

All the Best,

Jonathan

John Erik,

in modern condensed matter treatment local gravity maps to defects in the matrix and these provide the correct Riemann metric (in 3D). So gravity maps to the static deformation of space in the density compressions of the aether. Light analogs appear as transverse elastic vibrations. Once you identify the transverse velocity of these waves with c then e=mc2 comes trivially from Hooke's law, or the amount of energy stored in a plastic defect as it were. Reconciling these ideas with Michelson and Morley null results, meaning the nature of time and speed of light in said aether occupies most of the essay I submitted (SR emerges from a fundamental Aether)

Dear Edwin Eugene Klingman,

Thanks for your paper. I appreciate its novel presentation.

I know very little mathematics and know nothing at all about important contemporary theories in physics. I confess that I did not understand arguments presented in the article (with the help of few functional entities like; mass, field, time, energy, etc. and mathematics). My inability has nothing to with quality of subject, arguments in the article or presentation, but it is due to lack of my education in contemporary theories in physics (and advanced mathematics). Therefore, I hope you will not take offence on the following.

To have any type of nature, an entity should have some sort of recognizable form, structure, constituents and a mechanism of development and existence. In other words; the entity should be real. If your arguments about fundamental nature of 'time' are right, 'time' should be a real entity. What is time? Without a concrete definition of time, how could you ascertain its nature? Does time has all requirements that endow it with independent objective reality and positive volumetric existence? Assigning time with properties of real entity does not appeal to common sense. Time and related mathematical tools may be very good to explain different states of universe (history of events) and its constituents. But (I think) 'time' remains a functional entity, created by rational beings and its nature is fundamental only to corresponding mathematical analyses - It is neither a fundamental entity nor it may have fundamental nature. A functional entity can only fulfill functions assigned to it and its nature can be changed by its assigner as frequently as he pleases. Searching whole of universe, we cannot find time because it is not present anywhere. But searching our world, we shall find time in everything and in all modern theories.

I consider gravitation and gravitational attraction (gravity) as different phenomena. Gravitational attraction is an apparent expression of gravitation. Gravitation is the most fundamental pressure ('force'), derived from existence of substance (matter) and it is enormously strong (beyond what we can imagine) compared to all other manifestations of gravitation, which include 'natural forces' (gravitational attraction, electromagnetic 'forces', nuclear 'forces', etc.) and other mechanical 'forces'. All of them are minutely weaker than gravitation and there are differences between each other's strengths and ranges. Gravitation is caused by relative mechanical movements of constituent particles in a universal medium, structured by quanta of matter and fills entire space outside basic 3D matter-particles.

You discuss many other phenomena in the article, about which I am not confident enough to comment. Thanks again. Kindly pardon me, if I exceeded limits of criticism.

Regards, Nainan

Edwin,

Reading through a number of the essays, it seems the questions surrounding the issue of time are starting to become a, if not the, primary issue. I recently suggested to Eckard that given this increasing concordance, some thought might be given to a cooperative effort to draw in the various fields of expertise and assemble a focused argument against the block time/eternalist view.

It is not as though future generations of theorists are going to devote their careers to untestable ideas, just because the current generation has done so, so a revolution will occur, sooner, or later and having some theoretical reference points and arguments being put forth, could very well help it along.