The Noise of Gravitons

Stewe Agnew.

Graviton noise seems to be that perturbation and yet Science does not yet realize that this is actually the basis of physical reality.

You want to do the polarization between the waves and noise? But also the waves becomes noise by time. I am not sure about this approach. Maybe you think of the spin2 particle, which indeed looks very chaotical. For waves it is a sandwich perturbation? https://www.degruyter.com/view/journals/zna/31/12/article-p1664.xml?language=en

Gravitation is not perturbed, because it is not renormalized, because we are immensed in it, but actually chaos shows how we can understand the renormalization also.

Can you give us some links here?

Ulla.

The real problem seems to conclude that the gravitational waves and the gravitons are linked, like if they were the quanta of gravitational waves, so they are photons oscillating with different modes and they try to unify so the GR and the QM, but it seems not our foundamental reality, the perturbations of wavefunctions are not the problem, they are just gravitational waves, waves simply photonic due to movements of cosmological objects, the quantum gravitation is for me a different reasoning. We need really to unify not only the GR and the QM but all our unknowns, and the DE and DM seem essential at all scales.

You know in studying and reading many papers of the best thinkers and in reading the conclusions of the LHC or the Nasa or others, they conclude that it lacks something to superimpose to reach this quantum gravitation, all the best mathematicians and universities and thinkers have tried since more than 20 years and even in computing mathematical tools, it lacks something to superimpose and there are hidden variables, if we cannot renormalise and quantify there are reasons, the GR and QM cannot be unified in considering only this relativistic spacetime, we need really to understand these unknowns , the antimatter , the DM, the DE and we must unfify all in superimposing these unknowns and find the good partition, if not we shall trun still in round and we shall have just assumptions. It lacks really pieces to superimpose to our GR and this standard kmodel to find the real balances and the real matter energy transformations. The GR is correct of course for our spacetome photonic, it is just that it is not only the one peice of our universal reality, the thinkers can tell all what they want, the relativity is not sufficient to explain these deep unknowns.

It is indeed interesting that gravitation is too high, so we get these dark sides.

I also think of Einsteins efforts to understand the quantum world, even if he was one of its founders. He thought there is something more to it. Can it be the chaos that still was not found when he lived? Or understood. It indeed looks very Machian to me.

Ulla.

Indeed , it is there that it becomes relevant to search these hidden varaibles and secrets superimposed, einstein indeed told it, he was not sure that the GR and these photons are the primordial essence, we must add several things to all this, if not we shall explain these unknowns at my humble opinion.

Let s consider the 3 main spacetimes , it is an assumption of course and let s consider the finite primoridal series of 3D spheres coded, one for the space vacuum the DE, the main codes and the two fuels the photons for the thermodynamics , heat and electronagnetism and the cold dark matter for the gravitation and the cold like a balance correlated also with antimatter. Let s consider so this GR for the luminiferous spacetime of photons and let s consider the einstein fields equations and the tensors of ricci and of einstein. Now let s superimpose 3E8 in considering these finite series instead of points or strings, we have many combinations because these series have oddly like the cosmological number of spheres that I have approximatelly calculated the dirac large number, the volumes decreasing fron the central main sphere, so the space disappears implying a superfluidity, Now let s so superimpose these 3 main spacetimes and let s try to find the perturbations in all this with the diensions and correlations with the branes in considering the vacuun energetical and the cold dark matter , the sense of rotations of two fuels become intriguing for the charges and the antimatter. We can even consider the hopf fibrations maybe on surfaces for the quasiparticles also. The aim so is to find the interactions and to find the perturbations in a different logic than just for our GR , in considering this cold dark matter , we have hidden variables because this matter is also encoded in nuclei. We consider the branes and the apertubations and the tensors for the GR but we superimpose the others spacetimes and we must find others tensors to reach this gravitation, if the gravitation is the main chief orchestra, so the distances in our nuclei considering the main codes and this cold dark matter encoded permit to respect the newtonian mechanics, and for this cosmological scale, we know that this matter non baryonic balances and plays a gravitational force on galaxies for thier motions. That becomes very intriguing in consdiering these 3 main spacetimes superimposed , the tensors of the GR maybe are affected I don t know by these others , and if not, we must find their real properties , there is like a bridge between this GR and the others spacetimes, and they interact probably but what is really these interactions with their own tensors and properties, the fields are different. The branes and dimensions and these spheres can be utilised but in considering a different logic like equilibriums between these two fuels and more this vacuum having the main codes, see that the evolution can be considered and that we can even extrapolate the futur of this universe and the spherisation evolution, even the consciousness probably. That implies even a maximum spherical volume and a contraction also after if this mass increases due to this evolution towards the points of equilibriums, that becomes intriguing philosophically speaking. But it is an other stroty. The fact to utilise these 3E8 maybe and the 3D finite series of Spheres become a key of evolution and a key to explain the unknowns, the universe seems simple generally, only the details of couplings and interactions of exchanges are complex due to the number of these series, all is in contact due to this superfluidity and it seems that we have like a supermatter at this central cosmological sphere maybe and that the series sent are simply informations and coded of distributions fractalised of this supermatter, the energy matter transformations can be better understood.

Theoretically, the key to quantum gravity is in using the simple dimensions of matter, action, and quantum phase. This does mean that Science must move beyond the limitations of space and time to achieve an understanding of physical reality.

Science is so used to random noise that it does not realize how much useful information is in quantum phase noise...but it is very hard to measure quantum phase noise. Earth measurements are limited because of earth spin, but measurements in space far away from earth should finally be able to measure quantum phase noise from the gravity waves of our local cluster as well as our own galaxy.

Our sun responds to the gravity of nearby stars, but there is also an extra gravity vector force due to the coupling of star matter decays. The best measurements of gravity phase noise are LIGO and there are efforts to extract information from that noise.

Gravity wave polarization measurements are complicated since the three LIGO experiments are different orientations. The complexities of laser and interferometry polarization further complicate analysis. The ESA LISA mission will have the best chance of measuring quantum graviton phase noise...

Hi Steve, I know indeed about these methods correlated with the GR , in fact they try like I told to unify this QM and GR and many have tried like this beautiful paper of Wilczek, this paper is for me like I said about the gravitational waves and the noises correlated , but we must recognise that it is an assumption , first of all we have not found these gravitons and secondly we cannot affrim that this road is the good one to unify this QM and the spacetime.My ideas also are assumptions and I don t affrim them but between us , see that it is maybe a road to explain this quantum gravitation, I insist on the fact that the majority consider only these photons like the primoridal essence and that this GR is the only one piece of pur universal puzzle, we must recognise steve that we cannot affirm, we can tell all what we want, it is a fact , and frankly I doubt that we have only this GR at our cosmological scale to explain the things and that our standard model also is only made of encoded photons if I can say oscillating differently. The interferometry here was to prove the gravitational waves and never the gravitons, and also even the LHC or the Nasa and many accept that the gravitons are maybe not the quanta of gravitational waves, I just tell this, we cannot be sure even with the noises and the partition, it is a beautiful paper for me to rank all the noises of gravitational waves but we cannot tell that it is the noise of gravitons. So the gravitational waves phase noise yes ,m gravitons phase noises, I don t agree, I like this thinker Wilczek he is relevant but I am sure that himself he don t affrim , he tries like all to find them and prove them these gravitons, his paper is an assumption .At this moment this quantum gravitation has not been proved simply, we must recognise this,Regards

Dear Steve, imagine if My assumption superimposing these spacetimes is correct to reach the scales for this quantum gravitation and find their interactions and properties, the GR is really for me just a photonic spacetime and it is not our only one truth. The planck scale is an extrapolation and imagine if my reasoning is on the good road considering these coded 3D spheres at this planck scale and that we have these finite coded series of spheres and the 3 spacetimes superimposed . Imagine the possibilities respecting the lagrangian and Hamiltonian and a deeper interpretation of fields with the non commutativity. The values of Energy can be ranked with many properties of these series. The works of Dirac and Feynman can be improved in superimposing these spacetimes and our unknowns can be extyrapolated. We can in fact renormalise the objects, these spheres and their motions in this superfluidity of 3 aethers in a simplistic analysis. It is like a general hydrodynamics to explain the gravitational fields and electromagnetic ones and this vacuum also energetical considering the main codes. The derivatives and intergrations can be generalised with these series.The symmetries, the graphs , the renormalisations , this and that can appear at my humble opinion . We have many hidden variables and an incredible complexity of combinations. The morphisms and this non commutative spherical geometry is I can say become an universal key for me , we can utilise the products correctly with these primoridal series.Even the spectral actions become more complex and detailed with these two other spacetimes and the fields can appear with a deeper gravitational logic and our unknowns can be unified. I beleive strongly that this GR and our standard model need to consider this deeper logic of encodings and these spacetimes superimposed to really unigy the whole. Even the evolution appears , it is the meaning of my theory in fact, this spherisation optimisation of the universal sphere or furture sphere. The electronagntism and these photons are just a step but not the truth. See that the zeta Riemann function coulb be utilised in this non commutative reasoning linking the whole and these 3d finite series of Spheres. The topologies, geometries, matters ,and properties and fields and energies can be ranked at my opinion but the complexity is enormous in details. But several mathematical relevant tools superimposed can permit to make the good universal partition. All is a question of good rankings of groups simply and their interactions , many truths could appear beyond our actual standard model and GR. The fractalisations and extrapolations of dimensions and convergences with branes also can help because they oscillate and are in motion rotations also these finite series of 3D spheres in this superfluidity of 32 main spacetimes. A kind of universal spherical geometrical algebra appears even but it is too much complex for us at this moment and that implies limitations unfortunally.

3 main spacetimes, not 32 sorry, I write too quickly without rereading, regards

there is no proof John simply, nor about the gravitons proved nor about the fact that they are the quanta of gravitational waves, it is a beautiful paper but it is an assumption, no proof in this paper about what is the quantum gravitation and about the unification of the GR and the QM, the massless helicity is not the problem, the photons are massless also and they oscillate , and thew quantum phases are not the proofs , and also what they consider like foundamental objects in this reasoning, points or strings , branes and why ?

Steve Agnew told that there is no reason to go beyond the actual standard model and beyond this GR , it is also an assumption, maybe not or maybe yes we go farer, it d be odd for me to consider only these phiotons like the primordial essence, we cannot affirm these things with our limitations in knowledges, even einstein recognised this, he said that there is probably a deeper logic to superimpose, so the problem of the majority of thinkers is to consider only this GR and these photons, that is why I insist on the fact they are a prison, but it is just my opinion, I don t affirm, I just extrapolate and have assumptions, it is not prohebited to try to go deeper like it is not prohebited to try to unify just this GR and this QM,

John, Steve, Like I am not only focused on my own works, I discussed on face with the Team of Klee Irwin of the quantum gravity research , Lisi, Ray Ascheem, Davide Chester, Fang Fang and others work in this team and they are focused mainly on this E8 and they recognise that it is not sufficient and they consider algebras beyond this E8, the E8 for them does not describe fully the 3 generations and they focused on the problem of Distler and Garibaldi , Witten also helps in this road to converge with the branes , strings. I love Connes and I study his works in details but for them Connes has forgotten the non associativity and they consider this in the E8 , they like my spheres and told me that thje membranes and spheres indeed could converge, but it is not easy to find the real universal puzzle with these 3 main spacetimes superimposed . I beleive that you could love their ideas and algebras added to this E8, regards

Here is my equation improved hypothetical considering the 3 main spacetimes and the transformations energy matters, it is intuitive , we considered just the relativity so we had E=mc^2, but if this quantum gravitation, anti matter and cold dark matter are correlated so we have a deeper logic, and we can add their linear velocity more a parameter correlated with the cold Xl^2 and if we consider the Dark energy like an anti gravitational push, spherical and that we consider it like the main codes for the vacuum energetical, so we can add Y to have still more energy, that implies so this equation intuitive, E=m(c^2+Xl^2)+Y , we have more energy that we thought simply , of course it is intuitive and we must find these parameters but it is maybe on the good road. If this equation is correct , it is revolutionary but we must prove of course and find the roads to check it.

Gravitation is shown to be an emergent classical phenomenon. https://arxiv.org/abs/2009.05574

How is the gravitation described as a gauge group OUTSIDE U(1)? Does it mean the graviton contains it all? How is the noise separated?

Ulla.

John,

can the helicity in a spin2 particle( a solitonic charachter) be seen as a quantization in itself? In a way the em-force is also such because it requires two turns to come back to the same position.

Ulla.

Ulla,

That goes to my question of what is meant by a "massess helicity-two particle"; as referred to in the first paragraph of the article 'The noise of Gravitons' by Parikh, Wilczek & Zahariade. The attendant footnote is for a 1963 Feynman paper, 'Quantum theory of gravitation', which I have not hunted up and was hoping someone with greater familiarity with the long history of Quantum Mechanics could give a concise statement of the contention by the authors and a description of how 'helicity-two' is treated geometrically and analytically. The opening premise of the article is broadly sweeping in that it literally says, "Feynman famously showed" that 'consistency in the quantum mechanics of a massless helicity-two particle leads one to Einstein gravity'. So I am just seeking some clarification.

My personal preferences of paradigms differs from the articles approach, but that's not the issue. The article won first place in the Gravity Research Foundation's 2020 contest so if that is a preferred direction in that organization's inquiries, it would be good to understand more of the thinking that drives it. Other than that, I think it is always necessary that clear consensus on definition of terms be accepted, so while I am most accustomed to speaking of a rotation of two full circular turns as "4pi" and a "spin two" meaning the additive 1/2 pi = 90 degree methodology in the spin coordinate system adding up to a single full circular rotation, I am wondering if 'Helicity-two' means a non-zero torque of two full axial rotations giving a 4pi spinor state restoration of the initial polarity.

Ulla,

Expanding on my previous post, and taking that as how I read the article; if you follow what they present in the way of blanket statements of functions integrating over partial differentials ( perhaps mimicking the forms in the complexities of GR ) it seems that what the authors are attempting in argument to do is to 'split' the 4pi spinor state into two 2pi events at a distance so that the electromagnetic opposing polarities would equate as gravitational attraction.

I do not attempt to take "particle" literally in quantum mechanics, QM was never intended to be the least bit realistic. 'Exchange particles' only make sense to me if I treat the term to mean more like "an integral partial value" of some prescribed effect associated with a presumed material point. I watched a good PBS program on the invention of alphabets in which it was pointed out that the great innovative leap that took communication from pictographs to sound symbols was the very human amusement in making puns. So even with the Higgs I don't try to envision realistic particles quantum mechanically, I see them more like "partial calls" jrc

First of all Singh's paper shows only that the very complex Lie group of SO(4) has many of the expected properties of gravitons, but that is very far from proving that gravity is an emergent classical phenomenon. The trivial U(1) group is just one dimension of Singh's 8D octanion graviton (see attachment).

The important question to ask is how can any measurement ever show a reality of 8 dimensions when we only really have 4D space and time? My opinion is that the math is interesting, but really not that useful for describing the rather simple reality of matter, action, and quantum phase. This is after all just a simple SO(3) Lie group that is noncommutative, but also includes gravity as anticommutative. Science assumes gravity is commutative since spin = 2 gravitons are not part of gravity relativity. Of course, spin = 2 gravitons are actually anticommutative, but that is a different story.

Anticommutative is also noncommutative, but in action and matter, not space and time. This means that quantum gravity uncertainties manifest themselves as uncertainties in matter and action, not location and momentum as in quantum charge.

Graviton noise is the key to understanding physical reality and is something that Science can and does measure. However, in the ocean of electromagnetic noise on earth, gravity noise is very difficult to measure as shown by LIGO. Even at Lagrange 2, LISA had a very hard time measuring gravity noise, but of course it was not meant to measure gravity noise. The next LISA will actually measure gravity noise, and so that will be exciting.

The cosmic microwave background is also an example of gravity noise along with electromagnetic noise, but the gravity noise is ambiguous at large angles of correlation due to the limits of electromagnetic noise in the measurement. Future missions far away from earth will push the noise limits of that CMB and that will be exciting as well...Attachment #1: 2020singhLieGroup.JPG